Interpreting Service and Casualty Form - Alfred Devalle, 2 Bat. Royal Fusiliers

For locations of hospitals try FE Crew. He wrote the official history of the medical services in Italy. Locations of hospitals are in the book.

Frank

 

Hi,

We don’t know why he wrote his letter in 1954 - perhaps he needed his character for a job, to emigrate or simply to join British Legion or another ex service association.

All men demobilised under Class A went on to Class Z Reserve while Class B went on to Class W(T). Reserve.

Men on either category of reserve were finally discharged at age 45 until 1959 when legislation was passed to discharge all WW2 servicemen from recall from whichever reserve they were on. By 1959 there was a sufficient pool of ex National Servicemen to act as a reserve manpower pool.

Some WW2 reservists were recalled during the Korean War 1950/53 and during The Suez Crisis 1956.

Steve

 

Thanks guys. I've ordered a copy of that book, thanks Frank.

A few remaining bits of the 103 form that I am struggling to read/interpret, in case anyone can help me out with them. Boxed in red.

Two entries and two places I just can't make out what they're saying.



I was also keen to know if there is any way of tracking draft serials so I could find out, for example, where my grandfather embarked/disembarked or what ship he might have sailed on. I think the serial is RNMPB (maybe RNMPS?). Any pointers much appreciated.

 

Suggestions:

1) 20/7/1943 looks like first letter is a B
2) 18/9/1943 3rd column 'Reclassified U.T. Deale D' Under Training Deal Depot; 4th column looks like Home
3) 12/11/1943 no suggestions
4) 24/6/1944 Discharged

Re 2) was he entitled to Pre-Embarkation Leave?

 

Queries in Red Boxes….


I interpreted Class I query for you yesterday….

Disch = Discharged

The other queries in the next column are handwriting questions….

First one is Barton Stacey to my eyes and the second one is UK.

www.bartonstaceyhistory.co.uk/bartonstaceyarmycampmemories.html

Most troops embarked in either Liverpool or Gourock on the Clyde.

By late 1943 troop ships were able to use the Mediterranean to disembark rather than the pre summer 1943 3 month journey via South Africa to Egypt.

I’d say he likely disembarked in a port in Algeria or Tunisia near to where 2nd RF were located. I doubt he landed in Italy direct from UK. Men did land in Naples from early 1944 onwards.

Hugh MacLean may be able to assist re possible ships.

 

Draft Recognition Codes such as the above were like a bagage label. All troop units aboard a ship were given one and all their baggage was marked with it to keep everything together - there is no key to those random letters that make up the codes.

Possibly convoy KMF 26 (Clyde - Alexandria). Date of embarkation will not be the same as sailing day. Some ships called first at Philippeville and Algiers.

Duchess of Bedford (3753 Troops) Departed Clyde on the 15 November 1943 for Alexandria.
Ranchi (3542 troops), Reina Del Pacifico (3046 troops) and Samaria (4446 troops)

Hugh

 

Thanks! How would I check about pre-embarkation leave? I read that Deal depot was a Royal Marine facility. Any idea what a Fusilier would be doing there?

Reading it over, I can't decide if I think that it is that or Steve's suggestion of Reclassified Cl. 1 Scale D. Seems maybe to make more sense?

Thank you so much, sorry I missed your previous explanation of that entry. I would have never got Barton Stacey, will check to see if that figures with the 11th Batt. history.

Amazing, thank you! His battalion at that point was stationed in Bougie, Algeria, when his record says he disembarked on 27th November 1943, and also when he was taken on strength on 16th December, before they moved to transit area "Z" near Algiers on 20th December. So I would assume he disembarked at Algiers. Certainly the timings make sense. Tried to find records on the mentioned transit area, but didn't come up with much. He was certainly in Algeria for a short time before the battalion moved to Kabrit, Egypt, for Combined Arms training, before then moving to Italy in early March 1944.

 

Have just read a little into KMF26 and sounds like the day before they disembarked was quite eventful, with the loss of the Rohna... also suggests they were already clear of Algiers by that date, so perhaps he landed at Phillipeville. Definitely a story I'd like to dig in more, as witnessing that naval action is not something he ever mentioned, as far as I am aware...

 

Further to my suggestion for: 2) 18/9/1943 3rd column 'Reclassified U.T. Deale D' Under Training Deal Depot; 4th column looks like Home

My favoured British Army abbreviations guide lists u/t as under training. From: WW2 Abbreviations and Acronyms | Researching the Lives and Records of WW2 Soldiers

There was a link to the Royal Fusiliers in WW1, when they used the depot and it remained a depot through WW2 for the Royal Marines.

 

Robou

“Reading it over, I can't decide if I think that it is that or Steve's suggestion of Reclassified Cl. 1 Scale D. Seems maybe to make more sense?”



I’ve seen the same endorsement on many other service files. It’s nothing to do with RM Depot at Deal.

 

Barton Stacey on the A303 was an Army camp into the early 80s - mostly used by Royal Engineers.

F

 

I have been looking more into my grandfather's departure from the UK to North Africa, and have a few questions if anyone can answer. It makes complete sense that he would be on one of the troopships of KMF 26, embarking from either Clyde or Liverpool, and disembarking at either Algiers or Philippeville, in order to join his battalion which were then based at Bougie.

The date for embarkation on his B103 is 12 November, disembarkation on 27 November.

According to the Arnold Hague ports database, the troopships for the convoy included the Ranchi, which departed Clyde, the Duchess of Bedford, Reina del Pacifico, and Samaria departed Liverpool all on 15 November.

Of those, the Samaria called at Algiers on 26 November, and the Duchess of Bedford at Philippeville on 27 November. So, reasonably, I must assume he was on one of those two.

My interelated questions are therefore to try and square the circles...

1. How closely do the dates stamped on the B103 form relate to the event it describes?
2. Would he have embarked on a ship a full 3 days before it set sail?
3. Would he have recieved a stamp days before boarding?
4. Is the disembarkation date stamped likely to be the date he actually arrived in his destination port (i.e., that would make it Philippeville), or could it be delayed (i.e., the day after he potentially landed in Algiers)?
5. There are other ships listed as part of KMF26 on the convoy database which served as troopships in the war (e.g., Monarch of Bermuda, Scythia), but aren't indicated as carrying troops on KMF26, but is this likely to be the case? Could these also have been carrying troops?

Partially, I am interested in these questions for the sake of accuracy, but the action of 26 November involving the sinking of the Rohna begs to ask whether he witnessed that. I confirmed with my grandmother that he never mentioned anything to do with it. But he didn't speak really about any of the traumatic experiences of the war at all. So, in this case, was it because he wasn't there, or because he didn't want to speak about it?

 

QUOTE="Robou, post: 1127036, member: 110272"]I have been looking more into my grandfather's departure from the UK to North Africa, and have a few questions if anyone can answer. It makes complete sense that he would be on one of the troopships of KMF 26, embarking from either Clyde or Liverpool, and disembarking at either Algiers or Philippeville, in order to join his battalion which were then based at Bougie.

The date for embarkation on his B103 is 12 November, disembarkation on 27 November.

According to the Arnold Hague ports database, the troopships for the convoy included the Ranchi, which departed Clyde, the Duchess of Bedford, Reina del Pacifico, and Samaria departed Liverpool all on 15 November.

Of those, the Samaria called at Algiers on 26 November, and the Duchess of Bedford at Philippeville on 27 November. So, reasonably, I must assume he was on one of those two.

My interelated questions are therefore to try and square the circles...

1. How closely do the dates stamped on the B103 form relate to the event it describes?
2. Would he have embarked on a ship a full 3 days before it set sail?
3. Would he have recieved a stamp days before boarding?
4. Is the disembarkation date stamped likely to be the date he actually arrived in his destination port (i.e., that would make it Philippeville), or could it be delayed (i.e., the day after he potentially landed in Algiers)?
5. There are other ships listed as part of KMF26 on the convoy database which served as troopships in the war (e.g., Monarch of Bermuda, Scythia), but aren't indicated as carrying troops on KMF26, but is this likely to be the case? Could these also have been carrying troops?

Partially, I am interested in these questions for the sake of accuracy, but the action of 26 November involving the sinking of the Rohna begs to ask whether he witnessed that. I confirmed with my grandmother that he never mentioned anything to do with it. But he didn't speak really about any of the traumatic experiences of the war at all. So, in this case, was it because he wasn't there, or because he didn't want to speak about it?




[/QUOTE]

Hi,

Embarkation usually means the day a draft left barracks en route to the port of embarkation. The rail journey could be 24/36 hours in wartime depending on the barracks/port location.There is usually a gap between the date shown on the B103 and sailing of the ship/convoy as time was also needed for all drafts to be boarded on the convoy ships.

In my experience the date of disembarkation is more accurately recorded (information recorded on the B103 was drawn from another army form but don’t ask where to get that as it no longer exists) but may not always reflect the day the ship arrived in port as there could’ve been delayed (24 hours?) disembarkation or if they disembarked just before midnight or just after it dates could be recorded slightly inaccurately. You often find the same issue with WW1 casualties.

These army records weren’t maintained for historical or family history purposes 80 odd years later so you have to make some informed inferences/suppositions when you interpret them as there are gaps in the narrative.


As Bougie (modern day Bejaia) is nearer to Philippeville (modern day Skikda) than Algiers I think that is more likely than not he disembarked there for logistical reasons..


Steve

 

2 Royal Fusiliers Situation report from 13th May 1944.

 

Steve / Tullbroine added:

In previous research it became clear that the French colonial railway along the coast eastwards from Algiers was of poor quality and had limited capacity. So, it could be the availability of port facilities - away from Algiers - helped, but then once ashore there were problems.

 

Thanks so much folks, that's really informative and helps me to infer in those gaps.

And thanks for sharing that report, Gary, so cool to see primary material like that!

 

A further question arises about the Infantry Reinforcement Training Depot.

I have been searching in vain for any reference to a 5th IRTB. The closest I've got is the 5th Battalion, 1st General Reinforcement Training Depot, which was in Italy at the correct time (there is a War Diary at TNA for that unit), but unsure if that is something else? The only IRTB I can see in Italy in 1944 is the 1st IRTB, but I'm certain my grandfather's paperwork says 5, not 1.

Any advice on this issue very appreciated.