Italian POW Camp PG54 Fara-in-Sabina

Val,

At some stage your uncle left one of the camps he was being held in and was sent to a work camp, which is why there is a space before his name.

I will check him out.

Vitellino

 

I have attached a casualty record which I have downloaded from findmypast. It gives his date of capture. I will now look at the 8 RTR deaths for that date on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission's website aand will edit this post if I find any.

I corresponded with John Mallen way back but don't know if he's still alive. I don't think your uncle was the Bill in question, as John and the others escaped from PG 54 and your uncle had been sent to a work camp. The men were often content to go to these small camps, as they got double rations and there was more freedom.

What you should do is send for your uncle's prisoner of war record from the International Red Cross in Switzerland. If you are happy to wait until their next 'open day', which is 22 January, if I'm not mistaken, you can apply on line:

Requests for information about people held during Spanish Civil War or Second World War: Quarterly limit reached

You have to get in there as soon as they open (within minutes) otherwise there's another four-month wait. Alternatively you could write.

Edited with three more casualties on 08 December 1941. I have no proof that they were in Bill's tank.

2162225 Corporal GREENER, James, aged 22, 8th Royal Tank Regiment, R.A.C.
Buried KNIGHTSBRIDGE WAR CEMETERY, ACROMA Libya, Section 9, Row K., Plot 6.
Son of Robert James Greener and Estella Bennett Greener, of Longframlington, Northumberland.

2096006 Trooper, BAKER Louis, aged 28, 8th Royal Tank Regiment, R.A.C.
Buried KNIGHTSBRIDGE WAR CEMETERY, ACROMA, Libya, section 9.row J. plot 14.
Son of Isidore and Mary Baker, of Leeds, Yorkshire.

7924842 Trooper JONES George Edmund Armon, aged 31, 8th Royal Tank Regiment, R.A.C.
Buried KNIGHTSBRIDGE WAR CEMETERY, ACROMA Libya, Section 4, Row G, Plot 12.
Son of George and Elizabeth Ann Jones; husband of Sarah Ceridwen Jones, of Hengoed, Glamorgan.

Edited To say: I have now replaced the document.

 

Janet,
I don't seem to be able to open and read your attachment.

 

You're right, Geoff. I've just tried ot open it myself. Will try to download it again.

Edited to say:

Can't find the original. Too many irons in the fire at the moment!

 

Just pointing out that I "liked" your post before your edit went in Janet.

I am a git, but not that much of a git!

Your original will surface at some time, in your own time Janet, and as and when I will be in the queue to read it.

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

Hi Janet, thanks so much. that's really interesting. I should have mentioned the family say he crossed the River Po after he escaped. Hoping that might help. Sadly we know nothing more..

 

Wow Janet, this is amazing information. Thank you so much. Will definitely contact the IRC. So grateful. I have the Casualty and POW reports from FMP. He went missing on 1/6/1943 back in Allied hands on 30/10/44.

Val

 

Val,

Attached is page 380 from the British Army Casualty List, WO 417/86, showing that your uncle was no longer a prisoner in Italian hands. The date of the document is 1944 Dec 08 - 1944 Dec 30-1944.

On the same page there is a reference to someone to whom the same applied but who was in a neutral country - i.e. Switzerland. If your uncle had crossed into Switzerland the same thing would have been written next to his name. He could therefore have crossed into France or have reached Allied lines in Italy. You say he crossed the Po. That could mean he crossed the river to go south or, if he had been in hiding in the Northern Appenines, that he crossed it to go north and into France.

(Out of interest, I know that George Codd, whose name is in the list above your uncle, crossed into France in November 1944. Nothing, however, which regards your uncle, can be deduced from this fact.)

Lastly, the IRC record will only give you the name of the work camp. It's worth having it though, as it would help to work out his movements.

Vitellino

 

Hello, I have just recently discovered that my grandfather, Sidney George Nelson, was a POW in Camp 54 from August '42 to September '43 and I wondered if there were any lists that I could take a look at please. Thank you.

 

Hello Amanda,

Before I start looking any further, how do you know that he was in this camp?

Am I right in thinking he was in the Royal Engineers, service number 2127743? If so, there is no camp next to his name in document WO 392/21 National Archives, issued by the International Red Cross in August 1943 showing a prisoner's last known camp. (See attachment) No camp number means that he was no longer in the main camp but had been sent to a work camp.

Are you interested in lists showing his capture?

Best wishes,
Vitellino

 

Since our posts above I have successfully contacted the ICRC and have attached their reply, which names 3 camps in Italy: 85 on 25.11.42, 70 on 28.05.1943 then finally 146 from 03.06.1943.

I have a couple of questions I am hoping you can help me with.

First, Army record says he went mission on 01.06.1942, ICRC says capture on 24.06.1942 at Sidi Barrani. What could this mean? He was with 8th Tank Regiment and I'm guessing at Gazala, so was he and maybe others trying to evade capture for 23 days?

Is there any way of finding out that Farm he may have worked at whilst at 146?

I believe from what you have written in other posts and I've read online that in the days after capitulation, the gates were opened and prisoners allowed to escape. Bill crossed the River Po and fought with the Partisans (which is all we know) and was back in allied hands in ny the 30th October 1944, and he was first admitted to the 64th US General Hospital and then transferred to the 100th General Hospital in Afragola, near Naples. He had undulant fever which I think is connected to cows.

Any information would be wonderful!

 

I will check a few things out and get back to you.

There's no full list for any of the sub- camps (work detachments) of PG 146 ( I will be up there on 4 June with the daughter of another prisoner) but I have listed those who made it to Switzerland. That doesn't help you at all.

I do know a fair bit about the partisan bands to the south of the Po in the province of Pavia but again, there are no lists.

 

Casualty List no. 935 shows him as missing on 01 06 42.
Casualty List no. 983 shows him as POW and repeats the missing date. The 24 06 1942 IRC might well be the date on which his capture was confirmed.

List WO 417/86, published between 08 12 44 and 30 12 44, shows he was no longer a prisoner in Italian hands. (The lists came out a month or so after the reported events)
He did not enter Switzerland. He might have escaped to France but I cannot find any proof of this.

You say he crossed the Po. If so, he probably carried on to reach Allied Lines, which in November 1944 were held up on the Gothic Line.

If you have a subscription fo Ancestry you could look to see if he compiled a Liberation Report rather than an Escape Report.

I did find one reference to him in The National Archives:

Name: W A Loftus . Service number: 7887108 . Date of birth: 1 June 1917 .
This record is closed
Opening date: 01 January 2033
Request a search of closed records
More information

War Office: Other Ranks and Nurses: Service Records, Second World War

Reference:
WO 423/152129

Description:
Name: W A Loftus.
Service number: 7887108.
Date of birth: 1 June 1917.

Date:
[1939-1963]

Held by:
The National Archives, Kew

Former reference in its original department:
ADH001816175

Legal status:
Public Record(s)

Closure status:
Closed Or Retained Document, Open Description

Access conditions:
Closed Until 2033

Record opening date:
01 January 2033

This series consists of service records of non-commissioned officers and other ranks (but not officers) who primarily served in infantry regiments of the British Army during the Second World War and who were discharged from the armed forces before the end of 1963. It also contains the records of some individuals who served in the Royal Artillery, Royal Engineers and Nurses, as well as some records relating to service prior to the Second World War. The types of documents that are most commonly found within the service records comprising this series are:

- Attestation forms, which are the documents signed by the new recruit, or created upon transfer between units;
- Statement of service, which outline an individual's postings whilst in service;
- Discharge forms, which were issued when a soldier left the regiment;
- A variety of supporting correspondence.

 

Hello Val,

I imagine that Bill was with the partisans for some time, but decided to move on after the bands were subjected to a large scale enemy offensive in September '44.

From Oct-Nov '44 until the spring of '45 the Gothic line line was stationary. See attached map. He could have met up with Allied troops anywhere between Massa Carrara and Rimini but given the fact that the escapers from PG 146 who joined the partisans mainly did so in the Oltrepo it is logical to think that he crossed the line in the west, not along the coast which was heavily guarded by the Germans.

You might be interested in reading Samuel Slack's account of crossing the line near Carrara in the Armistice section of my website powcampopg52.weebly.com.

Also, you can read Felix Beecroft's account of being with the partisans in the Oltrepo in Giuseppe Zucca's book, for which I was the translator: Prisoners of War in the Lomellina. This is the second version, which contains the testimonies of eighteen prisoners, taken from their Escape reports.

Best wishes,

Vitellino


View attachment 382637

 

Hi Janet

You are so very kind, thank you. I can now continue to write his story for our family, mainly his daughter in law and grandchildren. I know they will be incredibly grateful for your help and I will make sure they know.

Best wishes
Val

 

Let me know when you've finished it as I would love to read it.

 

Will do!

 

I've got myself confused. If Bill's place of capture (from the ICRC report) was Sidi Barrani (missing 01.06.42 reported 24.06.42), was Sidi Barrani an Italian transit camp? I thought it was taken by the Allies in 1941?

 

Yes, this Egyptian town was taken by the Allies in 1940 (from the Italians who had invaded Egypt) and the war in North Africa swept past it several times, including the short siege (17 Jun 1942 – 21 Jun 1942) and surrender at Tobruk.