Japanese Hell Ships - POW Deaths

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by spidge, May 7, 2006.

  1. Assam

    Assam Senior Member

    Woodsy61,

    your best bet is to got over to Kew & look up his JIC get a copy & then get it translated. bear in mind however, you just can't go down to the local high school & ask could anyone translate. you would probably need to take it to an expert in Japanese, the reason for this is that the characters used on JIC's are Old japanese language which has not been used/taught for over 40 years, therefore the translator needs to a specialist in old japanese, you will get some good stuff off them & what camps deployed to etc.

    Hope this helps

    regards

    Simon
     
  2. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    hi,
    my wife is doing a family tree and her uncle was lost when the lisbon maru was sunk
    he was in the 2nd bt royal scots his name was alexander buchan burnett 3052803 he came from aberdeen.any info would be greatly recieved.thank you

    Ian,

    Have a look at this post: http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/374156-post6.html, it contains a trancsription and images of the action report by the USS Grouper, the submarine which caused the sinking of the Lisbon Maru.

    From the UK, Army Roll of Honour 1939 - 1945 on Ancestry:
    Name:Alexander Burnett
    Given Initials:A B
    Rank:Private
    Death Date:Oct 1942
    Number:3052803
    Birth Place:Aberdeen
    Residence:Aberdeen
    Regiment at Enlistment:Royal Scots (Royal Regiment)
    Branch at Enlistment:Infantry
    Theatre of War:At sea
    Regiment at Death:Royal Scots (Royal Regiment)
    Branch at Death:Infantry

    And from the COFEPOW database:
    Surname:BURNETT
    First Name(s):Alexander
    Rank:Pte.Service No:3052803
    Service:A
    Date of Capture:10/12/1941

    The Date of Capture would indicate he was captured during or following the Battle of Hong Kong.

    Mark
     
  3. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

  4. sandyg1960

    sandyg1960 Junior Member

    I am looking for information regarding William Mcqueen Greig who was a leading aircraftman in the RAF.

    He was a Japanese POW in WW2 and died on board the ship that was bringing him home.

    He is my father's dad and my dad was just a child/toddler when this happened and was never tols anything about his father so he has asked me to see if i can find anything out about his father as my dad is now in his 70's.

    i hope someone can either help or point me in the right direction

    many thanks in advance
     
  5. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Sandy,

    Here are your grandfather's POW details from the COFEPOW database. I'm sure this information will bring other's along who can help much more:

    Record Details

    Surname: GREIG
    First Name(s): William Quinn
    Rank: Cpl.
    Service No: 947579
    Service: AF
    Date of Capture: 20/03/1942
    Unit: 243 Squadron
    Held: Held Java, Moluccas (Ambon)
    Died: Died Maros Maru
    Date: 31.10.44
    Buried: Named Kranji Memorial

    Good luck.

    Steve
     
  6. sandyg1960

    sandyg1960 Junior Member

    Hi Steve
    thaks for getting back to me. my grandfathers name was William McQueen Greig not William Quinn.

    your help is very much appreciated
     
  7. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Sandy,
    Yes, I did notice that, but thought I would post the details as so many of the factors seemed correct. That being:

    William Greig, and Quinn could of been mistakenly recorded instead of McQueen.

    A Corporal in the RAF

    And that this man died on hellship 'Maros Maru'.

    At the National Archives, there should be what is called a Japanese index card for this man, which should show his next of kin and an address for the family. This would clear up if any mistakes had been made with the name.

    Other members of this forum have a greater knowledge of these matters, I hope they will come along and give you more definite information.:)

    Steve
     
  8. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

  9. sandyg1960

    sandyg1960 Junior Member

    Hi Steve

    Thank you for that. It's the correct person as it gives my grandmothers name and address. My dad was only 3 at the time. hopefully someone may come forward with more information for me.

    Many many thanks :):):):poppy::poppy::poppy:
     
  10. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Steve

    Thank you for that. It's the correct person as it gives my grandmothers name and address. My dad was only 3 at the time. hopefully someone may come forward with more information for me.

    Many many thanks :):):):poppy::poppy::poppy:

    Glad to have helped.:)
     
  11. Enigma1003

    Enigma1003 Member

    Sandy,

    There are at least 3 files at Kew that will give names/details:

    WO 361/1124
    Far East: Army personnel on Japanese transport ship Maros Maru, 17 September 1944 to 25 November 1944; nominal roll of deaths

    WO 325/143
    Death of British prisoners of war aboard Maros Maru en route from Ambon to Java, September to November 1944

    WO 361/1734
    Far East: deaths on board Japanese ship Maros Maru; prisoners of war buried at sea

    Mike
     
  12. Enigma1003

    Enigma1003 Member

  13. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    Sandy,

    It looks like you will be able to tell your father quite a lot, although it may not make for pleasant reading, as I found with the story of my uncle, who died on the "Hofuku Maru."

    There is also a War Crimes Case File at the National Archives which includes the following charge which I am sure is relevant, although it refers to the ship having been re-named. The charge is against some of the Japanese defendants and is number 6 in a list of seven.

    "COMMITTING A WAR CRIME in that they on a voyage from Ambon Island to Java, in or about the month of September 1944, when concerned in the transport of a draft of British and Dutch Prisoners of War by s.s. "Maros" ( renamed "Haruyoshi Maru" ) were, in violation of the laws and usages of war, together concerned in the ill-treatment of the said Prisoners of War resulting in the deaths of some and in physical sufferings to others."

    The National Archives at Kew, in common with other national archives, list War Crimes files by the name of the defendant and not by the subject matter, which makes life difficult for researchers, especially where information is not shared between researchers, which is all too common.

    The file is WO235/886 and has been open to the public for about thirty years.

    The other charges deal with the previous history of imprisonment and may well help you with your grandfather's history.

    WO325/143 was opened to the public on 3rd March 2007. It is very unusual to have the investigation file and the trial file.

    The two WO361 files listed by Enigma were opened on 22nd April 2011.

    If you cannot get to the National Archives yourself there are very helpful people who offer their copying services at reasonable rates who you can contact through this site.
     
  14. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Sandy,

    A little present for you. A photograph of your grandfather's inscription on the Singapore Memorial This was sent over by another member of this forum 'Bucklt'. He has photographed many of the CWGC cemeteries in SE Asia and elsewhere and has helped countless families finally view their loved ones memorial grave, or in this case inscription.

    I'm glad to see some of the other members have come along and given you some more in depth information, although, as they say, not very pleasant reading.

    Steve
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Bernard85

    Bernard85 WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    hi spidge,07-05-2006,06:34pm,re:japanese hell ships.pow,deaths.you pay tribute to the 21,039 pow who were killed by allied submarines.it is a deverstating story-today they call it friendly fire, I find it hard to come to terms with it,may they rest in peace,as for the japs.i will leave it unsaid.a worthy tread,bernard85
     
  16. Bernard85

    Bernard85 WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    good morning spidge,posted 07 may,2006.06:34am.re:japanese hell ships-p.o.w.,deaths.i have read the postings of this thread.i am not certain if I posted before.but I feel furious at what I have read,we have on one hand the Japanese involvement,in outright murder of merchant seaman and other allied forces,and then we have sunk by friendly fire,its a crime either way.to the victims I say, rest in peace.and thank you spidge for reminding us how lucky we are to be around today.thank you for posting.bernard85
     
  17. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    timuk and papiermache like this.
  18. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    This is the link to a fact sheet obtained by searching Australian Archives on the "search website" for "Montevideo Maru." There is link at the foot of the factsheet - No. 266 - which cannot now be opened- it refers to a website created by Australian Archives. Other links in the fact sheet cannot now be opened. ( as also links on the Wikipedia page.}

    https://www.naa.gov.au/help-your-research/fact-sheets/sinking-montevideo-maru

    Searching for "Montevideo Maru" in the "Record Search" lists many files which can be downloaded.

    See also this thread posted on today.

    KA Files Returned to the Japanese Government in 1953: Shipping Casualties
     
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