Leading up to the Battle of al-Alamein

Discussion in 'North Africa & the Med' started by spidge, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    After a successful operation against the Italians, the British weakened in Egypt by the diversion of troops to Greece. Then, in March 1941 the newly-arrived Rommel counter-attacked and recaptured much of the lost territory in Libya and Egypt, though the important port of Tobruk, garrisoned by Australians, held out. In May a limited British offensive, code named Brevity, proved disappointing, and the large-scale offensive named Battleaxe the following month, saw the loss of 220 British tanks to only 25 German.

    In July 1941 Sir Archibald Wavell, the Allied Commander in the Middle East, was replaced by General Sir Claude Auchinleck, and in November, the 8th Army at last mounted a successful offensive named Operation Crusader, which relieved Tobruk and pushed on to El Agheila.

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    But Rommel was not slow in striking back, first in an offensive which took him to a line just west of Tobruk and then, in a complex, swirling action between Gazala and the desert outpost of Bir Hacheim, in a battle which eventually saw the 8th Army in full retreat.

    So Tobruk fell. Churchill called the loss 'one of the heaviest blows I can recall during the war'. The British did not stop retreating until they reached a position covering the 30 miles of desert between the impassable Qattara depression and the coast, where the road and railway run through the little village of al-Alamein (el-Alamein, el-Alamein).

    The Situation Prior to the Battle of al-Alamein

    The Battle of al-Alamein, fought in the deserts of North Africa, is seen as one of the decisive victories of World War Two for the Allies. It was primarily fought between two of the outstanding commanders of World War II, Montgomery, who replaced Auchinleck, after the latter's lackluster performance, and Rommel. The Allied victory at al-Alamein lead to the retreat of the Afrika Korps and the German surrender in North Africa in May 1943.

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    Read the rest here:

    The Battle of al-Alamein
     
  2. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Spidge -
    Fairly accurate but Monty didn't replace Auchinlek - Alexander did that - Monty replaced Ritchie - Rommel was first beaten at Alum el Halfa six weeks before El Alamein !
    Cheers
     
  3. Jaeger

    Jaeger Senior Member

    Tom

    Spidge is referring to the fact that Auchinlek took personal command of 8th Army (releiving Ritchie) during the retreat to El Alamein.

    The Auk did the same in November 1941, releiving Cunningham.

    Theatre commander and Army commander at the same time. Who would be stupid enough to do such a thing? Oh wait Ike did. after all why would he not have a go at commanding the land forces in western Europe, after all he had previously commanded a bn.

    This lack of trust between superior and subordinate, the chaos and untidiness came to a sudden stop when Alex and Monty took the stage. Nuff said.
     
  4. Some Chicken

    Some Chicken Member

    Theatre commander and Army commander at the same time. Who would be stupid enough to do such a thing? Oh wait Ike did. after all why would he not have a go at commanding the land forces in western Europe, after all he had previously commanded a bn.

    Wasn't it Bradley in his memoirs who stated that Eisenhower was a superior strategist to Montgomery because he had done so well in the Leavenworth manoeuvres of 1926 or some such? Conclusive proof if I ever heard it.
     
  5. Oldman

    Oldman Very Senior Member

    One knows instictively that Bradley was a leading member of the Montgomery fan club, and Ike had not had much in the way of commanding forces at a higher level.

    Alexander had plenty of experience and so did Monty and they became a good team, the Desert Airforce Commander really helped with the legend through his support and team work.

    The debate is was Rommel finished after Alum-el-Halfa battle or did he have enough to try and force the issue again, when he considered that the 8th Army was ripe for being exploited by his forces and he could hold the expected counter attack in check.
     
  6. Jaeger

    Jaeger Senior Member

    IMHO I think Rommel missed the bus at Alam El Halfa. The reorganisation of the 8th Army, the clarity of command, the improvement of equipment and training and the strength of the El Alamein position tipped the scales.

    With Alex, Monty and Brookie persuading Churchill to allow for time to rebuild before attacking the DAK the puzzle fell into place.

    If 8th Army had been forced to attack after Alam El Halfa Rommel might have been able to disrupt the Commonwealth forces.

    I don't see Rommel as able to rig a massive set piece battle defeating the devils garden and pushing through the line.

    With the reorganisation of the Royal Artillery and the firm grip by Monty, I don't think that he could have made it.

    Just my two p.
     
  7. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Jaeger -
    Would go along with you on the reorganisation of the Artillery when Kirkman flew out from the Uk to take over - Rommel's days were numbered as well as Monty trying to get the Armour to wake up and forget their Cavalry charges - they weren't much good until around Medenine when Lumsden was finally fired - at about the same time Tedder and Coningham left for Algiers and Broadhurst took over and the British Blitzkrieg was born in time for El Hamma.....
    Cheers
     
  8. Oldman

    Oldman Very Senior Member

    Jaeger

    My post was meant to be humourous, Rommel had shot his bolt before the battle at Alam el Hafia, the Alamein line percluded the sweeping moves on the flank that he loved.
    As history has proved a well trained and equipped 8th Army did the damage, the other point to remember is Rommel was missing from the battlefield in his major engagements.
     
  9. Jaeger

    Jaeger Senior Member

    Oldman

    I see, I am used to a lot of "Rommel fanatics" on the web so...

    cheers
     
  10. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Rommel was first beaten at Alum el Halfa six weeks before El Alamein !

    Wasn't that the second time he was beaten? The first was in July. It's not like Rommel chose to stop at El Alamein, he was made to:
     

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  11. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Actually the third time he was beaten. The first was outside Tobruk in December 1941.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  12. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Actually the third time he was beaten. The first was outside Tobruk in December 1941.

    All the best

    Andreas

    Maybe four!

    What about April 1941 and ................................;)

    Cheers

    Geoff
     
  13. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    April 41 I wouldn't really count.

    All the best

    Andreas
     

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