Lend Lease Numbers From Russian Site

Discussion in 'The Eastern Front' started by spidge, Dec 19, 2005.

  1. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  3. laufer

    laufer Senior Member

    Stalin read this learn something then bugger off.
    In Russian from Russian archives.http://wio.ru/tank/llrus.htm

    Let me translate the words of this site Author for you (when he ask himself, what was the value of the Lend-Lease aid):
    "Можно сказать так: "Спасибо за помощь, друзья! Вы очень помогли!
    Но Второй фронт в Европе в 1942 (или хотя бы в 1943;
    вместо почти бесполезной войны в Африке) был бы намного лучше...""


    "We can put it in this way: "Thanks for you help friends! You were very helpful! But second front in Europe in 1942 or 1942, instead of unnecessary campaign in Africa, would have been much more helpful...""
    :ruflag[1]:
     
  4. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    "We can put it in this way: "Thanks for you help friends! You were very helpful! But second front in Europe in 1942 or 1942, instead of unnecessary campaign in Africa, would have been much more helpful...""
    :ruflag[1]:

    A compliment followed by a smack in the mouth with a wet herring. Used to that one.
    Kitty
    :D
     
  5. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    A compliment followed by a smack in the mouth with a wet herring. Used to that one.
    Kitty
    :D

    But at least one balanced out the other. Acknowledging the contribution made by lend lease followed by what they actually thought would have done them more good.

    It may have done. But there would have been a lot of troops and equipment lost in the artic seas if they had decided to go that way. Far too near occupied territory to be a safe lane. Also, we were in North Africa long before the Eastern Front was opened. Should we have abandoned Egypt, the oil fields and the Suez Cannal? That would have meant allowing the Germans access to valuable oil reserves that they sorely needed. It would have put the supply lines to the Far East later in the war in jepordy as well.

    No, the aknowledgement followed by the wish is okay by me. As long as you realize that, in this life you don't always get what you wish for and to be grateful for what you do get.
     
  6. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    "We can put it in this way: "Thanks for you help friends! You were very helpful! But second front in Europe in 1942 or 1942, instead of unnecessary campaign in Africa, would have been much more helpful...""
    :ruflag[1]:

    :)
    Entirely fair comment.
    Sadly it wasn't possible. (new thread anybody?)
    So go the fortunes of war.
    (top site by the way)

    the aknowledgement followed by the wish is okay by me. As long as you realize that, in this life you don't always get what you wish for and to be grateful for what you do get.

    but PP sums it up much better than I.
     
  7. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    put the site in my favourites so that I can read it in more detail. However, from what I have seen of it, it is a very interesting and informative site.
     
  8. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    No, the aknowledgement followed by the wish is okay by me. As long as you realize that, in this life you don't always get what you wish for and to be grateful for what you do get.

    Very true. And i was smiling as i said it, Plant Pot, so i wasn't being nasty. Just commenting on life.
    Kitty
     
  9. stalin

    stalin Guest

    Many of sent vehicles (tanks, planes, etc.) were in bad conditions (already saw military service). Lend-Lease vehicles were worse than modern Soviets ones. Goverment delays, smaller numbers.
     
  10. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    For balance negative AND positive.Quote from website.
    NEGATIVE
    Many of sent vehicles (tanks, planes, etc.) were in bad conditions (already saw military service) Lend-Lease vehicles were worse than modern Soviets ones. Goverment delays, smaller numbers.

    POSITIVE
    Lend-Lease was very helpful in 1941..42. Great Britain made the 1st steps to help Lend-Lease At the same time USSR also used even more obsolete tanks and planes Western people did theirs best. They even put warm clothes and tinned food into boxes with military equpment, using every free space
     
  11. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Many of sent vehicles (tanks, planes, etc.) were in bad conditions (already saw military service). Lend-Lease vehicles were worse than modern Soviets ones. Goverment delays, smaller numbers.

    You have had the opportunity to be balanced, yet you choose not to.

    Poor fool. (English this time)
     
  12. laufer

    laufer Senior Member

    :sign_oops: The site is translated - I didn't noticed that, sorry. Anyway, in my opinion most valuable part of Land - Lease aid and really important one for soviet military potential was what site Author classified as: "Other Lend-Lease goods" (explosives, fuel, tracks and jeeps, motorcycles, telephones and wires, radars, radios, locomotives and coaches, rails, rubber, metals, clothes, food, tobacco etc, etc).
     
  13. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    I mentioned the rail associated product to the Stalinite last week with no reaction (again).

    The numbers (volume) was staggering.
     
  14. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    I mentioned the rail associated product to the Stalinite last week with no reaction (again).

    The numbers (volume) was staggering.

    And let's not forget that the huge volume of aid was transported through the arctic seas by convoys from the UK and US. At great risk to the ships and their crews as the convoys had to pass very close to occupied territory and were at the mercy of air attack as well as the normal U-boat threat.

    And 'stalin' calls us 'ungreatful'!:(
     
  15. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    And let's not forget that the huge volume of aid was transported through the arctic seas by convoys from the UK and US. At great risk to the ships and their crews as the convoys had to pass very close to occupied territory and were at the mercy of air attack as well as the normal U-boat threat.

    And 'stalin' calls us 'ungreatful'!:(

    I have posted this previously that the MM sailors running this route had the highest death rate of 1 in 24.
     
  16. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    I have posted this previously that the MM sailors running this route had the highest death rate of 1 in 24.

    Sorry spidge me old china plate, but I didn't think there was any harm in mentioning their bravery again under the circumstances. Didn't mean to tread on any toes.
    :sign_oops:
     
  17. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Sorry spidge me old china plate, but I didn't think there was any harm in mentioning their bravery again under the circumstances. Didn't mean to tread on any toes.
    :sign_oops:

    No, that was not my intention at all. I was just supporting your post. I am still a little upset with the Stalinist fool belittling the sacrifice of these brave men.
     
  18. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Let me take the point "stalin" makes that the AFVs were inferior to Soviet made machines.
    What would have been the option a) to recieve nothing or b) vehicles that could be used in training, quiter fronts and protection of Lines of Communication that would then free up the better Soviet machines for the more urgent battles?
    In saying that some of these "inferior" Allied AFVs could still hold their own if handled correctly.
     
  19. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I mentioned the rail associated product to the Stalinite last week with no reaction (again).
    Funny how he doesn't react to anything that genuinely confounds his assertions isn't it?, just tries another blurt or starts up with the insults.
    :cop:
     
  20. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Found this on the net (Feldgrau.net)
    Here is an example of PQ convoy. In January of 1944, an American lend-lease convoy left Seattle bound for Vladivostok. Its manifest read as follows:

    46 merchantmen (all 8-10K ton ships); built by McCormack Ship Yards; Soviet flagged (to avoid being torpedoed by the Japanese who could attack U.S. flagged vessels but who could not attack Soviet flagged ones) and Soviet crewed.

    Six of the 46 ships were loaded with ammunitions and small arms. Four of the 46 ships were loaded with foodstuffs. Two of the 46 ships were loaded by Dodge (presumably with trucks). One ship was loaded by Westinghouse (presumably with communications gear).

    They carried:


    22.000 tons of steel provided by U.S. Steel.
    3.000 truck chassis, by Ford (the Soviets also assembled U.S. trucks from parts).
    3.000 truck differentials from Thornton Tandem Co.
    2.000 tractors by Allis Chalmers Co. (agricultural and military use)
    1.500 automotive batteries from the Price Battery Corp.
    1.000 aircraft provided by the North American Aviation Co.
    612 airplanes from the Douglas Aircraft Co.
    600 trucks from Mack.
    500 Allison aircraft engines.
    500 half-tracks from Minneapolis Moline Co.
    400 airplanes from Bell Aircraft
    400 electric motors from Wagner Electric Co.
    400 truck chassis by GM (see Ford above)
    310 tons of ball bearings from the Fafnir Company.
    200 aircraft provided by the U.S. Navy
    200 aircraft engines by Aeromarine
    100 tractor-trailer units by GM (trucks)
    70 aircraft engines by Pratt & Whitney


    The following table, not an inclusive one by any means, shows the extent of lend-lease aid the Western Allies provided to the Soviet Union from 01 October 1941 to 31 March 1946 (not a typo, aid went on well after WWII ended). CW - Commonwealth contribution; US - American contribution:

    Aircraft - 7.411 (CW) + 14.795 (US) = 22.206
    Automotive:
    --- 1.5 ton trucks 151.053 (US)
    --- 2.5 ton trucks 200.662 (US)
    --- Willys Jeeps 77.972 (US)
    Bren Gun Carriers - 2.560 (CW)
    Boots - 15 million pairs (US)
    Communications equipment:
    --- Field phones - 380.135 (US)
    --- Radios - 40.000 (US)
    --- Telephone cable - 1.25 million miles (US)
    Cotton cloth - 107 million square yards (US)
    Foodstuffs - 4.5 million tons (US)
    Leather - 49.000 tons (US)
    Motorcycles - 35.170 (US)
    Locomotives - 1.981 units (US)
    Rolling stock - 11.155 units (US)
    Tanks - 5.218 (CW) + 7.537 (US) = 12.755
    Tractors - 8.701 (US)
    Trucks - 4.020 (CW) + 357.883 (US) = 361.903
     

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