Lost at Sea

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by Gunner400, Apr 12, 2021.

  1. Gunner400

    Gunner400 Active Member

    I am looking at the below gent who was aboard the ship SS Florian when it was sunk by a German Submarine on the 20th Jan 1941.

    Able Seaman Wilfred Hunter
    B 1998, died Aged 43
    Lived in Hull

    wife A M Hunter
    67 Melrose St, Hull

    I am not cracking at looking on the NA but can anybody assist please and tell me if there is anything on there relating to him?
    I have found the Florian's log book I think it is but nothing on Walter.

    I am going to apply for his service record but I know it is taking 8 months or so to get them.
     
  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

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  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Think you mean 1898


    UK, Merchant Seamen Deaths, 1939 -1953
    Name: Wilfred Hunter
    Age: 43
    Birth Date: abt 1898
    Birth Place: Hull, England
    Death Date: 20 Jan 1941
    45947_0011-01055.jpg


    This might be connected to him Medal listing of Hunter, Wilfred | The National Archives

    TD

    Forgot to add this image
    45947_0011-01056.jpg
    But I think you already have his NOK and address details


    Able Seaman Wilfred Hunter (Unknown-1941) - Find A...
    FLORIAN SS was a British cargo steamer of 3,174 tons and built in 1940 and owned by Ellerman & Papayanni Lines Ltd. On the 20th January 1941 when on route from Hull 6th January 1941 for New York via Oban 18th January 1941 in ballast she was torpedoed by U-94 and sunk. All 44 crew were lost
    Cargo ship Florian, 3,174grt, (Ellerman & Papayanni & Co.) had been sailing independently from Hull to New York in ballast, sailing from Oban on the 18th January 1941 and disappeared along with her forty-one crew. The ship was officially recorded as missing/untraced on the 26th March 1941 by Lloyd's and a Missing Ship Committee considered her lost on the 20th. Information from German sources state that on the 20th January 1941an unidentified two masted vessel of around 2,500grt was sighted proceeding in the direction of Iceland, West of the Faroe Islands and was torpedoed and sunk in position 61' 14N 12' 05W. The Germans reported the ship sank in 42 seconds. This ship is believed to be the Florian.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Photos of Tower Hill Memorial panel for S.S.Florian from my collection.


    ABLE SEAMAN WILFRED HUNTER
    Regiment & Unit/Ship

    Merchant Navy

    S.S. Florian (Liverpool)

    Date of Death
    Died 20 January 1941

    Age 43 years old

    Buried or commemorated at
    TOWER HILL MEMORIAL

    Panel 49.

    United Kingdom


    • Country of ServiceUnited Kingdom
    • Additional InfoHusband of Alice May Hunter, of Hull.
    Download certificate








    Click to view
    BURIED OR COMMEMORATED AT
    TOWER HILL MEMORIAL
    LondonUnited Kingdom
    Number of casualties: 35837
    View cemetery details




    upload_2021-4-12_9-7-39.png

    upload_2021-4-12_9-9-46.png
     
  5. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

  6. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Hi,
    I think you are referring to armed forces records when you mention it is taking 8 months - MN records are different and are perhaps a bit more complicated as to where they are and what they detail. Unfortunately, that does not help us though as he died in January 1941 which means his service if it has survived will be held in card form CR1, CR2 in the Fourth Register of Seamen 1913-1941.
    Sadly, it appears there are no surviving cards for him in the Fourth Register of Seamen so unfortunately there is only one way to go and that is to obtain the last crew agreement for FLORIAN - with a little luck you can use crew agreements to backtrack his service but it really means visiting Kew as otherwise it is a costly business.
    It appears, if I have found the correct man, that he has a service record for WW1 where he served in the army from 1913 - 1919 so he may have not chosen a Merchant Navy career and only joined for the war [my speculation] if I am correct a check of the crew agreement for FLORIAN hopefully would show his previous ship and then you could find the CA for that etc etc. I am still double checking that WW1 connection.
    You mention you have found the logbook for FLORIAN - have you? The logbook includes the crew agreements for the whole year and for 1941 it is held in BT 381/1657
    But as the ship was lost in January there may not be a lot there as the actual logbook went down with the ship only the shoreside copy is available. If he joined the ship in 1940, I would get the 1940 logbook which is held at Kew in piece BT 381/1179
    and that may list his previous ship, if he had one..

    Here is his medal file: BT 395/1/47025
    Although it does not give up any valuable information I am 100% confident it is our man through the link given by TD in his post re his MN death - on the rear of the card it links to his medal file reference. It can be downloaded for free once signed in. He was awarded the 1939-45 Star, Atlantic Star and War Medal.
    Any questions, please feel free.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
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  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Might be that we need to know a bit more about him - searching throws this possible up

    UK, Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services, 1848-1939
    Name: Wilfrid Hunter
    Gender: Male
    Birth Date: 28 Sep 1897
    Birth Place: Whitby Yorks
    First Service Date: 12 Feb 1916
    First Ship Served On: Victory I
    Last Service Date: 16 Mar 1921
    Last Ship Served On: Victory I
    Service Number: SS6952

    UK, British Army World War I Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920
    Shows 10 Wilfred Hunter, but without service number or regiment ......................

    TD
     
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  8. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Hi TD,
    If you can tell me who Alice May Hunter's [his wife] maiden name or his father and mother I can then confirm the WW1 record for you.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  9. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Probably

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
    Name: Alice M Wilson
    Registration Date: Jan 1920
    [Feb 1920]
    [Mar 1920]
    Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
    Registration District: Sculcoates
    Inferred County: Yorkshire East Riding
    Spouse: Wilfred Hunter
    Volume Number: 9d
    Page Number: 253

    TD

    Leads me onto
    UK, British Army World War I Pension Records 1914-1920
    Name: Wilfred Hunter
    Gender: Male
    Birth Date: abt 1896
    Birth Place: Holy Trinity, Yorkshire, England
    Marriage Date: 23 Mar 1920
    Marriage Place: Dairycoates Hill
    Age: 17
    Document Year: 1913
    Regimental Number: 6224
    Regiment Name: 3rd Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment
    Form Title: Army Reserve (Special Reservists) Attestation
    Number of Images: 12
    Other Records: Search for 'Wilfred Hunter' in other WWI collections
    Family Members:
    Name Relation to Soldier
    Wilfred Hunter Self (Head)
    Alice May Wilson Spouse


    Possibly him
    1939 England and Wales Register
    Name: Wilfred Hunter
    Gender: Male
    Marital Status: Married
    Birth Date: 28 Sep 1896
    Residence Year: 1939
    Address: 187
    Residence Place: Leeds, Yorkshire (West Riding), England
    Occupation: Fronch Polisher
    Line Number: 21
    Schedule Number: 349
    Sub Schedule Number: 3
    Enumeration District: KGIK
    Borough: Leeds
    Registration district: 500- 2
    Inferred Spouse:
    Alice Hunter
     
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  10. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Thanks TD. For what it's worth, I think Alice May Wilson was the spouse and John Henry Hunter & Amy Hunter his parents.
    Regiment Name: 3rd Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment. It is just my opinion as you know army is not my forte. But I suppose we digress as the o/p was looking for MN records which as I have said appear not to have survived.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  11. Gunner400

    Gunner400 Active Member

    Gents as usual you are the font all all knowledge and I thank you for the time spent looking for me, I am not surprised he was in WW1 as well for his age.
    Sorry no good with ships logs etc but have attached a copy of what I found from the NA.

    National Archives
    DA2A1CC5-ADDA-4551-A192-054B0DF25EFC.jpeg 7C3E0001-CDEB-4A9F-B293-9DC1BDC44A86.jpeg
     
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  12. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    That is the ship's movement card. A ships logbook covers a whole year and includes many parts such as the crew agreements i.e. a list of all of the members of her crew.
    Ship's logbooks are best viewed at Kew unless you know what you are looking for.
    Regards
    Hugh
     

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