LT/X 21451A Leading Seaman Henry Edwards BEAVERS, RNPS: 03/02/1940 - Military Funeral Refused - Why?

Discussion in 'War Cemeteries & War Memorial Research' started by Shiny, Jul 23, 2022.

  1. Shiny

    Shiny Well-Known Member

    Hi All,

    I've been researching a relative who is buried in with the war graves in my local cemetery and have come across a bit of a funny.

    Seaman Henry Edward Beavers | War Casualty Details 2810729 | CWGC
    His name was Leading Seaman Henry Edwards Beavers and a member of the Royal Naval Patrol Service. On the 3rd of February 1940, he was on a trawler called Firefly which was sent from Leith (near Edinburgh) to neutralize a mine which had broken away from a British Minefield and was floating in the Firth of Forth.

    According to a newspaper story most of the men were standing on the rail on one side of the ship watching those in the ship's boat trying to corral the mine and bring it alongside. As they did this, a British destroyer went by at high speed and its bow wave caused one of the oars on the boat to touch a detonator spike on the mine. The resulting explosion destroyed the boat and injured or killed most of those watching. Only three men in the wheelhouse and one in the galley were uninjured.

    The newspapers go on to describe how the family was told there would be a military funeral in Scotland but because his wife claimed his body, both he and his friend - John Clay (who's wife had also claimed her husband's body) were told to meet a train the next morning and sort everything out themselves.

    Apparently the two widows asked for pallbearers and a white ensign for the coffins but it was all refused and they were left to pay for everything themselves.

    Has anyone come across this sort of thing before?

    Why might this have happened? Where can I look to try and find out more?

    Thanks for the help,

    Michael
     
  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Do you have the newspaper clipping?

    you could contact CWGC and see if they have detail on the burial arrangements

    Firefly, explosion
    BALDWIN, Charles E, Chief Petty Officer, P/J 56017, killed
    BARKER, Benjamin R, Engineman, RNR (PS), LT/X 6058 ES, killed
    BEAVERS, Henry E, Seaman, RNR (PS), LT/X 21451 AR, killed
    CLAY, John R, Seaman, RNR (PS), LT/X 19262, killed
    DOBSON, Carl, Ty/Sub Lieutenant, RNVR, killed
    JOHNSON, Walter E, Seaman Cook, RNPS, LT/JX 165021, killed
    JOHNSTONE, David B, Ty/Lieutenant, RNVR, killed
    PEAT, Norman F, Ty/Sub Lieutenant, RNVR, killed
    REID, Peter, Seaman, RNR (PS), LT/X 18333, killed
    STEWART, Alexander, Seaman, RNR (PS), LT/X 18334, killed
    STEWART, James, Seaman, RNR (PS), LT/X 9385, killed
    VAUGHAN, Geoffrey W, Ty/Sub Lieutenant, RNVR, killed
    Royal Navy casualties, killed and died, February 1940
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2022
  3. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    FYI

    Search Results | CWGC


    I think we all have experience of newspaprr accounts not being strictly accurate.

    The issue of funeral allowances was raised in UK Parliament in 1941 - the official reply and policy is below.

    While it refers to an army funeral policy I’m sure the same payment criteria would apply to naval and RAF funeral payments.

    If the policy was correctly applied then it is at variance with the newspaper account you quote.

    I’ve seen several funeral payments made to families recorded in Canadian service files - policy there mirroring UK policy.

    Steve

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commo...5-445b-4e01-83ec-d21080cfe90d/FuneralExpenses
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2022
    CL1 likes this.
  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Looks like the paper had incorrect info
    a number are buried in various cems not in one cemetery


    buried Bournemouth
    001 VAUGHAN GW - HMS FIREFLY 03/02/1940 ROYAL NAVAL VOLUNTEER RESERVE SEC. P.3. GRAVE 17.S

    buried Hartlepool
    001 BARKER BR LT/X 6058E.S. HMS FIREFLY 03/02/1940 ROYAL NAVAL RESERVE (PATROL SERVICE) PLOT 10. DIV. B. C. OF E. GRAVE 290

    buried Great Yarmouth
    005 JOHNSON WE LT/JX 165021 HMS FIREFLY 03/02/1940 ROYAL NAVAL PATROL SERVICE SEC. C. GRAVE 213.

    buried Glasgow
    001 PEAT NF - HMS FIREFLY 03/02/1940 ROYAL NAVAL VOLUNTEER RESERVE SEC. H. (NEW PART). GRAVE 1505

    buried Buckie
    013 REID P LT/X18333A HM MINESWEEPER FIREFLY 03/02/1940 ROYAL NAVAL RESERVE (PATROL SERVICE) SEC. C. GRAVE 85.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2022
    papiermache likes this.
  5. Shiny

    Shiny Well-Known Member

    Hi All,

    Sorry for the late reply but thank you all for the help.

    Here is a link to his entry on find a grave which includes the main newspaper article I found.

    https://old.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=59984772

    The story seems pretty convincing and I have another where a letter was sent in by a shipmate complaining no military honours were given.

    I have contacted the CWGC who were very helpful but said they don't hold any information on the funerals or circumstances of the person's death so couldn’t really tell me much other than both men have CWGC graves.

    Thanks for the help,

    Michael
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2022
  6. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Hello Michael

    Most of the crew appear to have been taken to their home towns for burial and not buried in one Scottish cemetery.
    If an en masse funeral had been offered with full military honours at the Navys chosen cemetery it was not taken up by most of the crews families.
    It could be an issue re the hometown local naval authority not being as helpful as they could at the time or not having the resources to cope.The family would have seen this as an insult hence the newspaper item.
    Perhaps search the local newspaper archives for more info.


    example here of home town burial for one of the crew
    Benjamin Robson Barker (1904-1940) - Find a Grave...
    [​IMG]

    regards
    Clive
     
  7. Shiny

    Shiny Well-Known Member

    Thanks Clive,

    I was starting to wonder if the short notice of it all was a factor, as you suggest.

    Maybe some research into the others to see if they had military funerals might help.

    I'm wondering if there would be any RN records anywhere that might have any funeral request information.

    Thanks a lot,

    Michael
     
  8. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    It looks like the coffin arrived on the Thursday and the suggested day for burial was the next day Friday
    The family appear to have acted on the next day burial as suggested by the navy.
    It states the request was refused for ratings but we will never know if the navy suggested that they could not release ratings for that day due to operational issues and they may have possibly suggested another day the following week.
    It might be worth you taking one of the other casualties and searching their local newspapers to see if there is any info re full military burial



    CASUALTIES OF THE FIREFLY 03 FEBRUARY 1940, SITE OF BURIALS.

    Charles E Baldwin, Chief Petty Officer, Edinburgh (Seafield) Cemetery, Sect P, Joint Grave 711.
    David Brand Johnstone, Lieutenant, Edinburgh (Seafield) Cemetery, Sect P, Joint Grave 711.
    Carl Dobson, Sub-Lieutenant, Edinburgh (Seafield) Cemetery, Sect P, Joint Grave 705.
    John Robert Clay, Seaman, Tynemouth (Preston) Cemetery, Sect K, Grave 14381.
    Henry Edward Beavers, Seaman, Tynemouth (Preston) Cemetery, Sect K, Grave 14379.
    Norman Fraser Peat, Sub-Lieutenant, Glasgow (Eastwood) New Cemetery, Sect H, Grave 1505.
    Alexander Stewart, Seaman, Buckie New Cemetery, Sect H, Grave 116.
    John Cowie, Second Hand, Buckie New Cemetery, Sect E, Grave 683.
    Peter Reid, Seaman, Buckie New Cemetery, Sect C, Grave 85.
    James Stewart, Seaman, Lossiemouth Burial Ground, Grave 871
    Benjamin Robson Barker, Engineman, Hartlepool (Stranton) Cemetery, Plot 10, Div B, C of E Grave 290.
    Edward Barker, Second Hand, Cleethorpes Cemetery, Sect G.G, Grave A8.
    Geoffrey William Vaughan, Sub-Lieutenant, Bournemouth (Wimborne Rd) Cemetery, Sect P.3, Grave 17.S.
    Walter Edward Johnson, Seaman Cook, Gt Yarmouth New Cemetery, Sect C, Grave 213.
    FIREFLY
     
  9. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    Relevant files at Kew. ADM 358/3299 covers dates up to end of 1979, apparently, and was opened to view on 28 June 2013.


    "HM M/S Trawler Firefly: 3 February 1940; damaged by a mine detonating whilst being...
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    Reference: ADM 358/3299
    Description:
    HM M/S Trawler Firefly: 3 February 1940; damaged by a mine detonating whilst being recovered north of West Gunnet Buoy
    Date: 1940 Jan 01 - 1979 Dec 31
    Held by: The National Archives, Kew
    Former reference in its original department: FIREFLY
    Legal status: Public Record(s)
    Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
    Access conditions: Open on Transfer
    Record opening date: 28 June 2013"


    "Temporary Lieutenant D B Johnstone, RNVR, Temporary Sub-Lieutenant G W Vaughan, RNVR,...

    Reference: ADM 358/14
    Description:
    Temporary Lieutenant D B Johnstone, RNVR, Temporary Sub-Lieutenant G W Vaughan, RNVR, Temporary Sub-Lieutenant N F Peat, RNVR and Temporary Sub-Lieutenant C Dobson, RNVR: report of deaths; HMS Firefly hit a mine, 3 February 1940
    Date: 1940 Jan 01 - 1940 Dec 31
    Held by: The National Archives, Kew
    Former reference in its original department: CW 3826/40"


    "Temporary Lieutenant A M MacLean, RNVR: report of death from injuries following a mine...

    Reference: ADM 358/21
    Description:
    Temporary Lieutenant A M MacLean, RNVR: report of death from injuries following a mine accident, HMS Firefly; 18 February 1940
    Date: 1940 Jan 01 - 1940 Dec 31
    Held by: The National Archives, Kew
    Former reference in its original department: CW 5507/40"
     
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  10. Shiny

    Shiny Well-Known Member

    Thanks very much Clive and Papiermache,

    I have a list of records I'm after on my next trip to Kew so I'll add this to it.

    I'll look into the others and see if can find anything about their funerals.

    Thanks again,

    Michael
     
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