Maj Gen WH Ramsden - Why Sacked by Monty in 1942?

Discussion in 'North Africa & the Med' started by pmcrory, May 21, 2006.

  1. pmcrory

    pmcrory Junior Member

    I'm doing a bit of research on Gen Ramsden, who at the time of Alam Halfa in Jul 1942 - and more importantly just before El Alamein - was commanding Monty's 30 Corps. He was sacked by Monty after Halfa but before Alamein five weeks later. He later went on to command 3rd Inf Div before Sicily, but Monty was a bit scathing about him at the time; from his biography: "I decided it was necessary to replace Ramsden in 30 Corps and I asked for Major-General Sir Oliver Leese who was commanding the Guards Armoured Division in England. He was flown out at once and I never regretted that choice". Richard Holmes makes a telling statement on the subject: "...I particularly lament the brusque dismissal of Major General Ramsden...but it did ensure that Montgomery had commanders he could trust".

    Does anyone know what the story is here?

    Thanks. Paul
     
  2. Steen Ammentorp

    Steen Ammentorp Senior Member

    Not sure that this is the whole story but anyway here we go. It should be remembered that Ramsden was actually Acting GOC 8th Army when Monty arrived at HQ 8th Army on 13th August 1942 and sight that Monty saw didn't impress him:

    Bernard's interview with General Ramsden confirmed the accounts of de Guingand and Harding. De Guingand had referred, in his appreciation in the car, to Ramsden as "Bloody useless", he later recalled, a verdict shared by most officers at Army Headquarters at the time. Moreover Ramsden had been a mere battalion commander under Bernard in Palestine in 1938-9; It was inconceivable to Bernard that he should continue as Acting Commander for a further two days while Bernard 'waited in the wings'. Both 30 and 13 Corps lacked a proper commander, and Ramsden himself was, in the view of both Churchill and Brooke, already above his ceiling as a Corps Commander let alone a an Acting Army Commander. It is a mark of Bernard's authority that, when he told Ramsden to return to 30 Corps, Ramsden did not 'Belly-ache', but accepted Bernard's decision to take over command of 8th Army immediately without hesitation or even checking with GHQ.


    Source: Higel Hamilton (1982): Monty : The Making of a General 1887-1942. p. 604

    This does not of course show why he was later sacked as GOC 30 Corps, but no doubt it is a combination of these things. Guingand's (and others) view of him plus Monty's general impression of the state of affairs in the 8th Army. Remember that he would also have liked (or said so afterwards) to have replaced Lumsden but was advised against since removing all corps commanders would be bad for morale.
     

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