I am looking for information on a polish unit I believe was at Monte Casino? Does anyone have a regimental (polish or english 8th army) list that includes the 7th armoured regiment (pulku 7 pancernego) of the polish free army at casino or other itlian battles?? RR
7th Lublin Lancers were an armoured recce group in 3rd Carpathian Infantry Division apart from them I can find no mention of a Polish 7th Armoured Battalion in Bellis for the time of Cassino. Aye MalcolmII
thanks MalcolmII. I have a card from my father in-law (past away 5years ago). I can't seem t find a a 7th armoured reg in the polish army. Can anyone translate the following information and give me a clue to the following questions? 1. If this was the 7th armoured regiment - where can I find world war history? 2. Why the year 1946 -- so long after the end of the war? 3. What does Stopien refer to with ST. PANC. written above it? Legiymacja nr228 upowazniajaca do noszenia odznaki pulkowej pulku 7 pancernego rozkazem dziennym pulku 7pancrnego nr 38 z dnia 14 sierpnia 1946r. zostala nadana odznaka pulkowa pulku 7 pancernego nr 228 stopien (st. panc.) olbrzymek (father in laws surname) jan m. p, dnia 25 VII. 1946r. dowodca pulku 7 panc jankowski major
rupert, I doubt if there was a 7th Polish Armour during the war campaign in Italy? Perhaps the ‘7’ is being mistaken as a ‘2’, or, the person was serving with the 7th British Armour? 2 Polish Corps, 9 Apr 1945 5th Kresowa Infantry Division (Polish) - 2nd Polish Armoured Brigade - 1st Polish Armoured Cavalry Regiment - 4th Polish Armoured Regiment - 6th Lwowski Armoured Regiment - 9th Polish Field Troop (Engineers) 3rd Carpathian Rifle Division (Polish) - 12th Podolski Lancer (Reconnaissance) Regiment * There’s quite a good breakdown at Pat Skelly's site: http://www.milhist.net/ordbat/2polcorps.html#450409 The site is from the American perspective and there are inaccuracies among the Allied listings, (the Commando references for instance), but otherwise it’s generally a good guide. If you have a reference for 1946, why do you suppose it has anything to do with Cassino? The Poles languished around in Italy until 1947 or so. During the war after Yalta and the decision to surrender Poland to the Soviets,, General Anders wanted to pull them out! Despite some 25’000 casualties, Anders ended the war with more men than he started with. This was due to Poles conscripted by the Germans joining the Free Polish among the Allies after they deserted or were captured. After the war many Poles didn’t want to return to Soviet Poland. Unfortunately they presented a political problem for the Allies who didn’t wish to upset the Soviets, and a practical one in that there was little inclination to provide for refugees. Some found a home with various Allies, but most were eventually taken in, reluctantly, by Britain and placed in mining, farming and fishing communities. No.9
I have a lot of books on the Italian campaign and was out in Italy myself and I can find no reference to the 7th Polish Rgt of never came across them during the war. Lustleighlad.
Originally posted by rupert@cfi.net@Mar 7 2004, 04:58 PM Legiymacja nr228 upowazniajaca do noszenia odznaki pulkowej pulku 7 pancernego rozkazem dziennym pulku 7pancrnego nr 38 z dnia 14 sierpnia 1946r. zostala nadana odznaka pulkowa pulku 7 pancernego nr 228 stopien (st. panc.) olbrzymek (father in laws surname) jan m. p, dnia 25 VII. 1946r. dowodca pulku 7 panc jankowski major It's a document permitting to wear badge of 7 regiment. "rozkazem dziennym pulku 7pancrnego nr 38 z dnia 14 sierpnia 1946r. " -Daily order of 7th regiment No 38 "zostala nadana odznaka pulkowa pulku 7 pancernego nr 228" -A badge(No 228) of 7th regiment has been given to "stopien (st. panc.) olbrzymek (father in laws surname) jan" -'Stopień' it means degree 'st.' its 'starszy'-older like in Private First Class 'panc.' is shortcut for, I think, 'pancerny'-armoured. So its a officers degree in armoured unit. "dowodca pulku 7 panc jankowski major" -Commander of 7th armoured regiment Major Jankowski Well thats all what I was able to translate with my english :P
Originally posted by No.9@Mar 9 2004, 04:54 AM rupert, I doubt if there was a 7th Polish Armour during the war campaign in Italy? Perhaps the ‘7’ is being mistaken as a ‘2’, or, the person was serving with the 7th British Armour? 2 Polish Corps, 9 Apr 1945 5th Kresowa Infantry Division (Polish) - 2nd Polish Armoured Brigade - 1st Polish Armoured Cavalry Regiment - 4th Polish Armoured Regiment - 6th Lwowski Armoured Regiment - 9th Polish Field Troop (Engineers) 3rd Carpathian Rifle Division (Polish) - 12th Podolski Lancer (Reconnaissance) Regiment * No.9 [post=23735]Quoted post[/post] Later that 12th Podolski Lancers Regiment was replaced with 7th Lublin Lancers
The 12th Podolian Lancers were the first troops to take Montecassino Abbey. They hoisted their regimental colors, and then Anders ordered the Polish and British flags hoisted as well.
Err - no one ‘took’ the monastery, they just walked into the ruins. The Germans evacuated it because they didn’t want to get surrounded as the French had made breakthroughs on the west side of the Liri Valley! No.9
Originally posted by Kiwiwriter@Aug 27 2004, 10:05 AM Sorry, the precise term should have been "moved into" or "entered" the Monastery. [post=27707]Quoted post[/post] But how many days did the Poles fight to be in position to occupy the Abbey at Monte Cassino? What casualties did the Poles take before the CEF outflanked the Germans? Also, I wonder if the attacking Polish troops knew what the French had done, and that Monte Cassino would have to be evacuated by the Germans. After all there are rather a lot of dead Poles who are still at Cassino! "We Polish soldiers, for our freedom and yours, have given our souls to God, our bodies to the soil of Italy, and our hearts to Poland."
Look, let's not get into a semantic debate here. The Poles found no opposition when they entered the ruined abbey, finding the art treasures that had not been evacuated in ruins. But they did fight bloody battles to get there, and certainly thereafter. Dominick Graham's book "Cassino: The Phyrric Victory," part of the Ballantine series, has a very fine photograph of a Polish Rabbi conducting a burial service for Polish Jews who died in the Cassino battle. I often wonder what their war was like, and how they wound up as casualties beneath "that bloody monastery." There is also, of course, a Polish war cemetery near Cassino, and I hope that the maintenance level has gone up since the end of the Cold War, as the Polish government has moved to recognize the achievements of men like Anders, Maczek, and Sosabowski.
Cassino was a prime objective of the Gustav Line which dominated the approach to the Liri Valley and the optimum land approach to Rome, and, it was the Poles who eventually entered the monastery and raised an Allied flag. All credit to them for that and it is generally taken as a symbol to mark the end of the Gustav. However, it reality marks the end of a long a desperate struggle by a great number men without whose sacrifices the Line would not have been broken. The glory belongs just as much to the men of the 36th Texas who were spent in their attempt to cross the Rapido, and all the men after them working towards the same ends as it does to the Poles. Breaking the Gustav was not a hundred metre sprint, it was a relay race. Human nature is such that everyone wants to see a runner cross the finish line and rush to congratulate them, and quite right too. However, it is fact that without the other runners who carried the baton over their stretch, he wouldn’t have made it. No.9
Originally posted by No.9@Aug 28 2004, 12:10 AM The glory belongs just as much to the men of the 36th Texas who were spent in their attempt to cross the Rapido, and all the men after them working towards the same ends as it does to the Poles. Breaking the Gustav was not a hundred metre sprint, it was a relay race. Human nature is such that everyone wants to see a runner cross the finish line and rush to congratulate them, and quite right too. However, it is fact that without the other runners who carried the baton over their stretch, he wouldn’t have made it. No.9 [post=27764]Quoted post[/post] I wish people would share those sentiments about the entire war.
