Naval battle around Guadalcanal

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by Dog_Father, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. Dog_Father

    Dog_Father Member

    I'm wondering why the US navy didn't add torpedo blisters,
    to their Crusiers, during the Guadalcanal offensive. The
    Brits had used them in WW1 and the blisters were found to
    be very effective. If you look on the US Navy's web site,
    you will see a lot of US ships were lost to Jap torpedos.

    The navy did add them to some ships later on. The Enterprize
    got them added in 1943.

    Losses like the Sullivan Brothers and the Indianapolis, might not
    have happened.
  2. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member


    Not well up on the subject, Ive only read a bit on the subject, by far the most interesting is ballards modern investigetion of the wrecks, which is fantastic.

    Do you think it would have made a big difference.

    If I remember rightly gunfire was a major factor, most of the wrecks where in pretty bad shape.

    Also the Japanese destroyors where handled very well.

  3. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    IIRC, the Japanese Long Lance torpedo was one of the most effective torpedo designs, accurate, long range and a powerful warhead. What might work in one war wouldn't necessarily work as effectively elsewhere.
  4. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    Looking into it. the man responsible for the torpedo bulge also had something to do with

    Battleships and Battlecruisers
    • Renown class battlecruiser
    • HMS Hood battlecruiser
    • several very large capital ship designs, both battleships and battlecruisers, rendered inadmissible under the Washington Naval Treaty
    aircraft carriers




    Tennyson-D'Eyncourt was chairman of the Landships Committee which had been set up by Winston Churchill to oversee their design and production, see also the Mark VIII (tank).

  5. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    Information supplied by DF :-

    US ships lost to torpedos
    Carriers CV sunk by torpedos

    USS Hornet (CV-8) sunk after being torpedoed by Japanese aircraft during the Battle of Santa Cruz, Solomon Islands, 26 October 1942.

    USS Lexington (CV-2) sunk after being torpedoed by Japanese aircraft during the Battle of the Coral Sea, 8 May 1942.

    USS Wasp (CV-7) sunk after being torpedoed by Japanese submarine I-19 south of Guadalcanal, Solomon Islands, 15 September 1942.

    USS Yorktown (CV-5) damaged by aircraft bombs on 4 June 1942 during the Battle of Midway and sunk after being torpedoed by Japanese submarine I-168, 7 June 1942.
    Heavy Cruiser (CA)

    USS Chicago (CA-29) sunk after being torpedoed by Japanese aircraft off Rennel, Solomon Islands, 29 - 30 January 1943.

    USS Houston (CA-30) sunk by gunfire and torpedoes of Japanese warships in Sunda Strait, Netherlands East Indies, 1 March 1942.

    USS Indianapolis (CA-35) sunk after being torpedoed by Japanese submarine I-58 in the Philippine Sea, 29 July 1945.

    USS Northampton (CA-26) torpedoed by the Japanese destroyer Oyashio on 30 November 1942 during the Battle of Tassafaronga and sank on 1 December 1942.

    USS Quincy (CA-39) sunk by gunfire and torpedoes of Japanese warships off Savo, Solomon Islands, 9 August 1942.

    USS Vincennes (CA-44) sunk after being torpedoed by Japanese warships off Savo, Solomon Islands, 9 August 1942.

    Light Cruiser (CL)

    USS Helena (CL-50) sunk after being torpedoed by Japanese warships during the Battle of Kula Gulf, Solomon Islands, 6 July 1943.

    USS Juneau (CL-52) sunk by the Japanese submarine I-26 after being torpedoed during the Battle of Guadalcanal, 13 November 1942.

  6. mikebatzel

    mikebatzel Dreadnaught

    Most of the ships one see's pictured with torpedo bulges during WW2 are in fact older ships. During the 1930 torpedo bulges were phased out in preference for more internal arrangements designed to preform the same duty. Much of the reason for this is that in adding the bulge it decreased the speed at which a ship can travel.
  7. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    Information supplied by DF :-

    US ships lost to torpedos
    Carriers CV sunk by torpedos

    Heavy Cruiser (CA)

    Light Cruiser (CL)

    Add to that list, the USS Oklahoma, USS West Virginia & USS Utah and the USS Nevada and USS California. The California could be iffy, as a bomb hit forward resulted in the forward engine room having to be evacuated, which stopped pumping water from the ship.
  8. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    Really good page on Torpedo defense.

    Torpedo Defense Systems of World War II

    a cutnpaste from same

    Each bulkhead was carefully designed to provide maximum resistance to overpressure before tearing. The bulkheads were spaced so that once torn, a failed bulkhead would not impinge upon the next bulkhead inboard, permitting that structure in turn to provide maximum resistance, undamaged by the preceding structure. Similarly, the last armored bulkhead would not impinge on the holding bulkhead. The collective resistance of the three armored bulkheads and liquid layers stopped fragments before they could reach the unarmored holding bulkhead.
    The system performed very well. The outer void space produced an initial sharp listing moment, but this was readily corrected by counterflooding corresponding outboard void spaces on the opposite side of the ship, a technique aptly demonstrated by the USS West Virginia (BB-48) at Pearl Harbor. The armored bulkheads performed as designed and the holding bulkhead remained intact when struck cleanly within the system by Japanese aerial torpedoes. USS California (BB-44) sank at Pearl Harbor due to her unprepared state; neither torpedo penetrated the TDS.
    USS West Virginia sank due to the torpedoes striking her belt and punching it inward, causing flooding of the inboard compartments above the TDS on her third deck. Several torpedoes also opened the side shell above the belt, flooding the second deck, and one struck bodily above the belt. None of the torpedoes hit West Virginia’s TDS cleanly and it may have been breached by virtue of the inward-driven belt buckling the third deck that sealed the top of the TDS, and weakening or tearing away the upper foundations of the torpedo and holding bulkheads. This out-of-parameters situation came about due to the ship’s overloaded condition, scheduled to be corrected by blistering. In addition to the seven hits on the belt and one above it, one torpedo struck the rudder well outside the TDS.
    Also in 1915, the British introduced an innovative TDS design in the Renown Class battle cruisers. The designers provided an integral bulge in the hull design below the waterline. This feature gained added stand-off distance for the TDS, and the upward venting of the gas overpressure bubble expended itself against the heavy armored side belt where it sloped outward above the bulge. One drawback of the design was a wasp-waisted cross-section that produced a smaller water-plane area that initially adversely effected stability, although flare higher on the hull began to take effect as the vessel became more deeply immersed..
    A more questionable British innovation occurred in 1917, when HMS Ramillies of the Revenge Class, received external blisters containing “water excluding materials” in the form of closed metal tubes 8 and 9 inches in diameter, and wood pulp. The theory was that these materials would preserve buoyancy by preventing water from filling the entirety of the void. It was also hoped the torpedo would expend much of its energy crushing the tubes. In reality the wood pulp became waterlogged and rotten, eliminating its usefulness and the tubes appear to have been of no value. HMS Ramillies and HMS Resolution were both severely damaged by torpedoes in World War II, and HMS Royal Oak capsized from at least two hits (maybe three) in Scapa Flow. The British Nelson Class of 1922 was the first Treaty-limited design, but used a conventional layered TDS. However, the Nelson’s belt was placed inboard of the side shell, permitting torpedo blast to travel up the exterior of the armor yet still destroy the skin of the ship, possibly permitting flooding over the top of the TDS.


Share This Page