need help for ww2 resistance code in greece

Discussion in 'Top Secret' started by giannis, Apr 29, 2011.

  1. giannis

    giannis Junior Member

    greeting to everyone! it is a really magnificeng fact that you are communicating each other with the use of this forum. congratulations to all i hope to you all the best. i was searching for a british veteran of ww2 for a long time. There is a specific reason for this search of mine. If my question is out of topic i would like to apologise in advance and the moderators may attach it where they thing is appropriate. I am writing from greece and the last 4 years i am trying to solve a riddle. before going to the riddle itelf i would like to inform you so as to help you understand better.
    Since greece as you know was occupied during ww2 some greek officers were trained by british ones in order to establish and maintain the logistics for a resistance movemenet during german occupation. This was the first logistic oficers or in greek epimelites. This training involved the use of nature and some kind of code in order to hide supplies. The procedure involved the preparation of of the land itself , via the use of holes and afterwards these holes were carefully closed and only a small entrance were left hidden of course. This network of holes was used in order for teams to constantly move while having in all places around small warehouses. These warehouses were used for the hiding of armory food and the salaries of the partizanis. Because the holes were constructed in advance and perharps the people who put stuff there where not the same that might take them back, a secret code existed. This code demanded the use of two stable points and the measurement in meters of the distance between the stable point and our crypt. Various signs were left in the rocks or in trees mostly letters and numbers. Sometimes some symbols were in use such as hearts , squares etc. So when a team while moving in a unknown territory wanted supplies it was able to acquire them without actually knowing about the place or having special maps or papers .
    The problem now is that when the germans left greece we had a civil war. During these civil war the leftists partizanis used the crypts in order to supply the communist fight. Moreover they transferred as much as they could get in new crypts with new signs. They even introduced signs such as birds or animals that bulgarian communists were using. Furthermore they altered the existing signs or give them a different meaning.
    Since some of them are still alive and are very dedicated till now to their belief about the communism very few relatives of them have acquired information. Some of them however before they died told them about the crypts and this is how nowadays many people have information about where the crypts are , but very few of them can find them.
    In my case now I have found this kind of code in various places and while combining information I have managed to find … more code ! All the code I find is of the form
    Eg ΙΠΓ 1936
    I know that the letters describe the what you have to find next eg path , and the numbers describe the distance, however I would like to know if there is anyone in here that has actually hided thing in the ground or in caves. He could explain to me the details that I am currently missing in the overall procedure. The reason I expained so much is also that someone may have actually seen something like that and can give us a opinion in general .
    I am also sure that these are not bedtime stories because many people have found things such as trapped boxes or caves with marking on them, that were perfectly decripted on maps they had in their hands because a relative of them died, or never returned from exile after civil war and mailed them the maps.. However my main concern at the point is the actual procedure. What code they were using ? how this code is constructed ? what is the meaning of the letters and numbers ? Or in general anything that someone may think is relevant and likes to help.
    Thanks in advance giannis
     
  2. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    Perhaps there is something in the SOE Greek section archives about this? Were these caches created for the Noah's Ark operation?

    Here's a link to Greek section files that might have some information:
    Detecting your browser settings

    Can't say if they do or not as I don't know too much about SOE's activities in Greece.


    Lee
     
  3. At Home Dad (Returning)

    At Home Dad (Returning) Well-Known Member

    Yasou Giannis!

    This info may or may not be of interest to you,
    but you never know what parts of the puzzle
    help complete the picture.

    I had a relative who was in SOE Greek Section
    (was this called 'H' section?). I cant tell you
    anything more than what I know, but they were
    recruited by an advert in the Times which was in
    the ancient Greek language. Many of the members
    were experts in ancient Greek, which I would imagine
    was a language forgotten by the whole population and
    known only to a few scholars at that time.

    Perhaps the heart of the code lies in the ancient language?

    Best regards

    oh, and can you translate this?



    Lee - thanks very much for that link, it's on my list now for the next NA trip!!
     

    Attached Files:

  4. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    AHD, have you checked to see if your relative has an SOE personal file yet? They are in HS 9, if there is one it might still be closed but can be opened if you send in a copy of his death certificate.

    Lee
     
  5. At Home Dad (Returning)

    At Home Dad (Returning) Well-Known Member

    I haven't checked for his file yet, Lee, but do plan to -
    once I get the last bits of the West Ham Battalion book
    out of the way!
     
  6. giannis

    giannis Junior Member

    hello my friend ,
    thank you very much for your reply!
    i am not sure how this section was called .. i have read however for sure that the first 400 officers were trained by british officers in 1939 in the middle east. when they returned they started the first school of "epimelites" aka logistics in the mountain of koziakas.
    i think that i had heard rumors that ancient greek played some kind of role in this code. I will find the ancient greek words for trees water etc and see if my letters are the first letter of these words.
    about your translation
    it exactly says :
    THE MODERN GREEK CLASS
    APRIL - SEMPTEBER 1944
    LONDON

    maybe some kind of greek lessons ?
    thanks again
     
  7. giannis

    giannis Junior Member

    dear PsyWar.Org
    thanks also for your answer , what is the procedure in order to have a look on these files ?
    thanks in advance
     
  8. At Home Dad (Returning)

    At Home Dad (Returning) Well-Known Member

    Ha, perhaps that is the little joke?

    "THE MODERN GREEK CLASS
    APRIL - SEPTEMBER 1944
    LONDON"

    This comes from a group photograph of the SOE Greek Section
    in London, men who were trained in the ancient world. This was
    one of my relatives problems when preparing to be dropped into
    occupied Greece - he didn't speak Greek! Only the ancient language. Thankfully, whatever mission it was didn't happen:D

    I would be interested to know the result of this line of investigation
    and whether the ancient words match with the codes in any way!

    best of luck
     
  9. giannis

    giannis Junior Member

    I just looked for the word water in ancient greek and i saw something very interesting. I till know knew that the word is "idor" in the ancient greek from school. but when i looked a dictionary now i saw that ancients had different words for water! such as falling water , drinking water , they had a different word to describe a water situation! this is interesting since i know that sometimes the water played a major role in the crypts, as a stable refer point , but the word water is too vague. there are fountains , ravines etc. now i will try to combine a bit this information
    i can see the joke also , ancient greek are very difficult and are very diferent than modern. what is the noah's ark operation that was mentioned above ?
     
  10. Jedburgh22

    Jedburgh22 Very Senior Member

    If it was in 1939 it would have been under the control of either MI(R) or Section D of SIS - the details would then have been passed on to SOE when it was formed and became organized in 1940-1 and the various Country Sections formed.
     
  11. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    I haven't checked for his file yet, Lee, but do plan to -
    once I get the last bits of the West Ham Battalion book
    out of the way!

    Let me know when you're at Kew and we can meet for coffee?

    There are quite a few Greek section SOE files there. Although his personal file, if he has one, will be the most interesting for you no doubt.

    The Greek Section came under the D/H Balkans directorate (the H symbol was for Iberia).
     
  12. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    dear PsyWar.Org
    thanks also for your answer , what is the procedure in order to have a look on these files ?
    thanks in advance

    Giannis,

    There are three main choices:

    1. Make a visit in person to the National Archives at Kew, Surrey. If you take a camera the files can be copied for free.

    2. Request the National Archives to copy the files for you. Which works out to be expensive, especially if you want digital scans over paper photocopies.

    3. Pay for a freelance research (like myself) to visit on your behalf to copy the files. (For instance I charge 10 pence per page to photograph a file).

    Lee
     
  13. giannis

    giannis Junior Member

    how many pages an archive might be ?
    this for example
    Detecting your browser settings
    can you send me pm with an email so as to continue our conversation there
     
  14. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    how many pages an archive might be ?
    this for example
    Detecting your browser settings
    can you send me pm with an email so as to continue our conversation there

    I send you a PM Giannis.
     
  15. giannis

    giannis Junior Member

    [​IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us


    this is from the field manual of that age. the black spot is the target and the two others stable points help us for the triangulation
     
  16. At Home Dad (Returning)

    At Home Dad (Returning) Well-Known Member

    Giannis

    any update on the crypt locations
    when decoded with ancient Greek?


    best
     

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