Need Help Guys

Discussion in 'Recce' started by ozzie flynn, Aug 29, 2011.

  1. ozzie flynn

    ozzie flynn Junior Member

    Hi All, I need some help identifying my Father's uniform badges if that is possible, he was in the Reconnaisance Corps, but I am unable to identify anything else. I believe beneath his recce badge is a badge with what looks like a W on it, also on his sleeve is a straight up and down bar.

    His name is Austin Flynn born 1924, lied about his age to join up, was evacuated at Dunkirk. At some stage he was in North Africa, Tobruk was mentioned by my Mother many years ago. And was one of the first guys to
    get to Belsen, and assisted in the clearance of Cadavers, (which I only found out about recently from an elderly cousin).

    Unfortunately my Dad passed away (Industrial Accident in 1959), when I was 9, so I didnt get to hear nor would I have understood much of what he and all the other brave lads went through.
    Just prior to demob he volunteered for the Palestine Police and served there until 1948.
    I have no service number for him and am trying to get his service record. Which I thought would be easier if I at least knew which Regiment he was in, especially as he gave a wrong date of birth.
    Austin Flynn Snr 2 WWII.JPG

    Austin Flynn Snr 1 WWII.JPG
    The photos are dated 1942 and 1944 (on motorcycle).
     
  2. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Ozzie -- bit of confusion here - so the best thing is to get on to Glasgow for his service records......

    as it is - the "W" on his high sleeve is that of the 53rd Welsh Division- which would mean 1944 in NWE where they might have been involved at Belsen-

    1942 MIGHT have been at Tobruk which surrendered on 20th June '42 BUT - the 53rd were NOT involved in North Africa - so at that time he MIGHT have been attached to the XXX corps or the VIII Armoured Bde which came home in the December '43 - from Sicily and Tunisia to prepare for D Day.....

    The Gold 2" stripe on the lower left sleeve is a wound stripe- which means he got in the way of something nasty- which probably sent him to hospital for a time - then a possible transfer to 53rd Division

    so get on to Glasgow and the facts will reveal themselves
    Cheers
     
  3. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Ozzie -
    can only trace two recce Regiments in the desert in '42 and that was 44th - from 44Div - which was broken up after El Alamein and joined 7th Armoured Div - and 51st which was attached to 51st HIghland Div - both of which came home from Sicily/Italy at December '43..
    but I am no expert in recce regiments and no doubt recce mitch will be along with awhole list of them - shouldn't worry too much about his service number - talk to Gasgow and tell them all the facts - they are reasonable people
    Cheers
     
  4. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Ozzie - have a scroll down to a recce 53rd thread- as this was the recce regiment for the 53rd Division - they have published a photo - your father might be on it
    Cheers
     
  5. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    Ozzie,

    I found an A Flynn in the database UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949 on Ancestry. Details are:

    Name:A Flynn
    Campaign or Service:Palestine
    Service Date:1945-1948
    Service Location:Palestine
    Regimental Number:2873



    [​IMG]

    Mark
     
  6. Assam

    Assam Senior Member

    It may well be easier if you back track from Palestine, you already know his PP number courtessy of BFBSM (and it is on his GSM in anycase), so you can get his police service record. It should detail prior service from the forces.

    Just a thought.
     
  7. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    His name is Austin Flynn born 1924, lied about his age to join up, was evacuated at Dunkirk. At some stage he was in North Africa, Tobruk was mentioned by my Mother many years ago. And was one of the first guys to get to Belsen, and assisted in the clearance of Cadavers, (which I only found out about recently from an elderly cousin).

    Ozzie -
    can only trace two recce Regiments in the desert in '42 and that was 44th - from 44Div - which was broken up after El Alamein and joined 7th Armoured Div - and 51st which was attached to 51st HIghland Div - both of which came home from Sicily/Italy at December '43..
    but I am no expert in recce regiments and no doubt recce mitch will be along with awhole list of them - shouldn't worry too much about his service number - talk to Gasgow and tell them all the facts - they are reasonable people
    Cheers

    If your father was at Tobruk he had to be with the 8th Army and as Tom says, both the 44th and 51st Recce were with the 8th Army. The former at first served with the 44th Division, but when that division was disbanded in July 1943 the 44th Recce was reassigned to the 56th (London) Division.

    Also with 8th Army was 50th Recce (ex-4th Bn Royal Northumberland Fusiliers), which was part of the 50th (Northumbrian) Division until April 1942 when it transferred to the 22 Armoured Brigade. The 50th Recce (4RNF) was overrun partly at the Cauldren and then finished off at Knightsbridge in June 1942 - following the Gazala debacle - never to be reformed.

    The reason I mention this is that 4RNF were also used as a Recce battalion in Flanders in 1940, were evacuated through Dunkirk and were one of the original Recce outfits. Possible nexus?

    You will not know who your father served with for sure without his service records... being ex-forces I am assuming that you know how to obtain his service records, but if not just ask and someone will be along to assist.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  8. ozzie flynn

    ozzie flynn Junior Member

    Hi All, Firstly let me thank all of you for info and advice received.

    TOM Info on Welsh badge fantastic, will check out the 53rd shortly. Dad was indeed injured(shrapnel in his legs), thanks for clearing that up. Maybe I have been a bit uptight about his service no. will call Glasgow or just request info minus his no. You never know.
    BFBSM The reference you gave me does refer to my Father his PP Collar no. is 2873, in Arabic. Many thanks for that, I believe the PP records are held in the Middle East section of Cambridge University, personal visits only, will have to check again. Have included 2 photos one photo clearly shows the no.s on his collar
    ASSAM Unfortunately when Dad died, Mum gave me and my brother his medals, and at ages 8 and 9, we didnt appreciate what we had, they disappeared a long time ago, I am sorry to say. Thanks for suggestion. Assam
    STEVE MAC thanks for info Steve, going to take me a while to work through it, but again think Glasgow is the way to go, have had his service request ready for a few months now, just been holding back trying to get his svc no.
    I did try an Army heritage researcher, but he came back with, not enough info from me.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Ozzie,

    You don't need his service number, just give them as much information about him as possible; including date of birth, the fact that he added a few years on to his dob, his home address at the time, next of kin at the time, where you know he served and who with - the 53rd Division connection, etc.

    Be patient though. Some applications are taking over 8 months to turn around...

    When you have his service records, if you feel like sharing the information, I would be interested in seeing who he served with and where, etc. It looks like he had a colourful war; and after in Palestine!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  10. Assam

    Assam Senior Member

    Thats interesting, in both photos (to the best of my sight) he does not have the Africa Star.

    It would appear he is wearing the 1939-45 star, France & Germany Star Defence Medal & 39-45 war medal with of course MID. Last ribbon I am not sure of but does not look British.


    Regards

    simon
     
  11. ozzie flynn

    ozzie flynn Junior Member

    Thanks Steve wildo, and when info arrives will be proud to insert it into these pages.

    regards
    Ozzie
     
  12. ozzie flynn

    ozzie flynn Junior Member

    Cheers Assam I had not noticed that fact, although as a child I 'think' I remember getting one round medal and 1 cross each to me and my brother and my sister getting a round medal. Kids aye!!!!.
    Also one of the family stories went he was sweeping for mines with his mate in the, 'desert', when he heard an explosion and his mate was killed.
    Again these were stories told to us as kids, and I am talking 50+ years ago. But thanks for pointing the Africa Star out...I will have to get onto my cousin who may know more about that part of the War.

    For info guys I am only home for weekends as I still have to go and earn a crust, working away from home during the week. So if you don't get any replies from me, its probably because the hotel is charging extortionate rates for internet access, but I will reply on my return.

    Regards to everyone
    Ozzie
     
  13. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Simon / Ozzie
    I have just clicked on and was also surprised to find NO Africa Star with 8th Army clasp - if he really was at Tobruk in '42 -after El Alamein - with either 44th - 51st or 50th Recce he certainly qualifies for the Star- bearing in mind that both 44th and 51st Divs only arrived in MEF just prior to the Battle of Alum el Halpha in Aug/Sep '42 - so the service records will be even more interesting
    Cheers
     
  14. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

  15. dave3164

    dave3164 @davidcarter1978

    Hi Ozzie,

    I have just got back from holiday and seen this thread.

    On checking the history of the 53rd Recce Welsh Spearhead, there is a Tpr A Flynn listed as being injured on the 28th July 1944. As he is wearing the 53rd Div W in 1942 I think there is a good chance this is your father but his records will only confirm this!

    Checking the war diary for this date:

    25th July the regiment were reunited in a harbour area at Marcelet 9468
    27th July regiment under command of 71 Inf. Bde takes up defensive position on ridge SW of Baron 9462 relieving 1 Ox and Bucks. Sporadic mortar and shell fire. B Sqn under command 159 Bde at Etteville 9846. By a miracle of good fortune no casualties. Men learning to keep under cover.
    28th July Situation unchanged. Mortar fire heavy. Cpl Davies HN (C Sqn) killed. Major PM Cowburn slightly wounded and four O.R.s wounded.

    Hope this is of some help.

    Dave
     
  16. dave3164

    dave3164 @davidcarter1978

    I have also taken a quick flick through This Band of Brothers where most bravery awards are listed. Your father is not mentioned as being awarded his MID whilst in the Recce Corps. I have be told that a number of awards are missing from this publication so this may mean nothing.

    Dave
     
  17. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    dave 3164
    there is also some confusion about the photos from 1942 - and 1944- as IF he was in the desert in 1942 - the 53rd Division weren't- as they only got involved from D Day- he did get a wound stripe and I thnk that is probably from the incidents in July '44
    and as you say only the service records will clarify this case...
    Cheers
     
  18. Assam

    Assam Senior Member

    I think it is also worthy to note that if awarded the Africa star, he would most probably have had the ribbon "up" on his uniform by the time he got to Europe.

    Whilst I am uncertain exactly when British forces started wearing the ribbon, I do know that those of the Australian 6th Division were wearing it before they went into the Pacific theatre in late 1942.

    In respect of the MID, I have had difficulty locating it within the London Gazette but then that is not anything to go by as many an MID are hard to track.

    Regards

    Simon
     
  19. dave3164

    dave3164 @davidcarter1978

    Hi Tom,

    I understand what you mean now! Looking at the 1942 picture, I don't think it was taken in 1942. In July 1942 Reconnaissance Regiments were issued should titles displaying 'RECONNAISSANCE CORPS'. Under the order ACI1681 in September 1942 these shoulder titles were withdrawn and Recce Corps members were not allowed to wear them. It wasn't until 1943 that the shoulder title displaying just the word 'RECONNAISSANCE' was allowed to be worn again. I think the photo labelled 1942 only displays the title 'RECONNAISSANCE'.

    This probably only adds to the mystery however.

    Dave
     
  20. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Dave 3164-
    I note that you can spell the whole word - RECCE - this was asked of me in my last WOSBIE - a little fat Major asked " can you spell the word recce?" -I thought about this for perhaps 6 seconds trying to figure out where all the N's and S's went - to hear him say to the Brigadier that " this chap is not suitable" ....and the Brig harrumpted his agreement- and I was out on my ear to stay in the ranks all through the war.....

    The correct answer - of course was - "Yes Sir" or "No Sir" - came to me later.....taught me that some officers don't think !
    Cheers
     

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