Novice needs help Fathers Service Record A & SH 1944/47

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by Keith Ross, Oct 11, 2021.

  1. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member


    I’d suggest that engaging in correspondence with Glasgow might be futile and only likely lead to a lengthy delay as they will hide behind the working from home smokescreen.

    I’d write to your MP and ask him to raise it with MOD to ask why this change in policy has been introduced after so many years. Where is the harm in a family member being provided with full records so long after a relatives death?

    I’ve seen a Police force “selling” their personnel records to Ancestry when the online records contain details of offences committed by the Police Officer. I’ve also seen late 19th Century and early 20th Century photos (mugshots) of “criminals” having been sold to Ancestry. No apparent consideration of Rehabilitation of offenders Act in either case.

    Scots Guards sold their pre 1939 service records to Findmypast in 2020 and discipline and medical papers are available in online files - that appears to breach the MOD guidelines.

    There is an inconsistency in handling service records that is hard to understand.

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  2. Keith Ross

    Keith Ross A & S H

    Ok Thank you Steve.
  3. Keith Ross

    Keith Ross A & S H

    Steve......Can we safely assume everything that has been ''redacted/removed'' refers to spent misdemeanors/convictions or could there be another reason ? Cheers Keith
  4. Keith Ross

    Keith Ross A & S H

    Also guys..... Steve mentions they have left a snippet of info readable.........Mossbank Detention Barracks.....26-3-45.....Does anyone know where this was ?
  5. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    I’d say it is all discipline related - hence the reason why the MOD clerk has included a specific paragraph in the letter. In my experience no medical details are recorded on that portion of the Statement of services. His injury should have been usually recorded under the “wounds” sub heading - as it was post war it would likely be recorded as an “accidental or non accidental injury” rather than a wounding.

    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
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  6. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Simple google search turned up these links that mention Moss Bank Detention Barracks.

    It was in The Shetlands - the second link says it was on the site of what became the Sullom Voe oil terminal.


    (1167) - Army lists > Quarterly Army Lists (Second Series), July 1940-December 1950 > 1945 > First quarter > Part 2 > Volume 1 - British Military lists - National Library of Scotland

    Royal Naval Prisons (RNP)
  7. Keith Ross

    Keith Ross A & S H

    Thanks Steve. Do you think his lengthy disciplinary record was the reason he was in the UK from joining in June 44 to being sent to the CMF in Dec 45. 18 months in the UK seems an awful long time before being deployed.
  8. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    The posting to the Holding Battalion in December 1944 would normally be the last stepping stone to an overseas posting. British Liberation Army in North West Europe was chronically short of infantrymen by early 1945. After the end of the war in Europe in May 1945 there was a U.K. retraining programme for deployment to the Far East - invasion of Japan anticipated in 1946. By December 1945 post war demobilisation was in full flow so he would’ve posted overseas to fill a gap.

    Without sight of the unedited papers it is difficult to say whether his disciplinary record was a bar to his early deployment. It was often the case in wartime that men were immediately sent on an overseas draft after completing a period of detention to eliminate any opportunity for persistent misbehaviour in U.K..

    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
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  9. Keith Ross

    Keith Ross A & S H

    Really interesting Steve, thanks.
    There is a box that says character "good". Seems a contradiction :)...
    I've heard him described as a "lovable rogue" and " a bit of a del boy"...what a mystery. I suppose the disciplinary record is no surprise. I wonder if I'll ever get access to it.
    What sort of info do you think I would get from the National Archive files on POW Camp 373 and do you think there is a chance the incident in June 46 that caused his injury may be listed ?
  10. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    From memory I think there were 7 character assessments available at discharge -


    Very Good





    Very Bad

    I couldn’t hazard a guess what the file at Kew might reveal but I think it more likely deals with the comings and goings of the POW’s rather than the activities of the British personnel. If you do decide to ask for a copy use one of the members here rather than the copying facility offered by National Archives as they charge an extortionate amount.

    The service file likely contains the Court of Enquiry papers as a CofE was habitually convened when a man sustained a non battle injury.

    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
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  11. Keith Ross

    Keith Ross A & S H

    Many thanks Steve. Very grateful.
  12. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    8.1.T.C will be 8.I.T.C (so an I not a 1) and will be 8 Infantry Training Centre (its talked about here infantry training centres of 1942 | WW2Talk )

    Para 390 (XVl) R8R8 1940 - is paragraph 390 section XVI of KR (Kings Regulations) 1940 edition - which is ceasing to fill physical requirements
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  13. Keith Ross

    Keith Ross A & S H

    Thank you.
  14. Keith Ross

    Keith Ross A & S H

    Guys ..Can I ask.....a soldier would only have been in reciept of an army pension had he been injured whilst in service?
  15. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Pension could be paid for injury or illness sustained in service if it impaired his abilities on return to civilian life. Pensions subject to review and could be removed if the injury/illness ceased to be an impairment.

    I know of a National Serviceman who complained of hearing impairment attributable to service and has been in receipt of a small pension for over 60 years.

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  16. Keith Ross

    Keith Ross A & S H

    Ok. Thanks Steve. His wound was to his lower leg. Most of calf muscle lost....almost just a shin bone from what I'm told. My mum is 88...says it was a shrapnel injury from memory. He walked with quite a limp. How he would of suffered that in June 46 in an Italian POW Camp is a strange one. Perhaps a land mine ? I'm very curious:).
  17. J Kubra

    J Kubra Member

    I received detailed information about a complaints process in regards to the provision of Service Records. I have copied the email extract below. I am not sure if this will be of any use to you but it might be somewhere to start.

    Thank you for your email.

    The Ministry of Defence met its obligations to you in 1985 and we are not resourced to answer your supplementary questions.

    If you now wish copies of the records I have explained how you can do this. I am afraid we do not work in the archive, we do not have the files at hand or at the press of the button. We advise the public on how they can apply and process the applications and that is about it.

    If you are not satisfied with this response or you wish to complain about any aspect of the handling of your request, then you should contact Mrs Diane Taylor the Disclosures Manager, Army Personnel Centre, Mail Point 527, Kentigern House, 65 Brown Street, Glasgow G2 8EX in the first instance.

    If informal resolution is not possible and you are still dissatisfied then you may apply for an independent internal review by contacting the Information Rights Compliance Team, 2nd Floor, Zone N, MOD Main Building, Whitehall, SW1A 2HB (e-mail Please note that any request for an internal review must be made within 40 working days of the date on which the attempt to reach informal resolution has come to an end.

    If you remain dissatisfied following an internal review, you may take your complaint to the Information Commissioner under the provisions of Section 50 of the Freedom of Information Act. Please note that the Information Commissioner will not investigate your case until the MOD internal review process has been completed. Further details of the role and powers of the Information Commissioner can be found on the Commissioner's website,

    I am sorry for what must be a disappointing response.


    SO3 | Disclosures 4 (Historical) | MP 555 | APC Support Division | Army Personnel Centre | Kentigern House | 65 Brown St | Glasgow | G2 8EX
    DTN: 94561 2670 | 0141-224-2670 | Fax: 3172 |
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  18. Keith Ross

    Keith Ross A & S H

    Many thanks. I will pursue the matter and update in due course. Hopefully it won't take another 14 months.
    Regards Keith.

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