Online amateurs crack Nazi codes

Discussion in 'Top Secret' started by angie999, Mar 2, 2006.

  1. angie999

    angie999 Very Senior Member

    Some trivia from the BBC:

    Online amateurs crack Nazi codes

    By Adam Blenford
    BBC News website

    Three German ciphers unsolved since World War II are finally being cracked, helped by thousands of home computers.

    The codes resisted the best efforts of the celebrated Allied cryptographers based at Bletchley Park during the war.

    Now one has been solved by running code-breaking software on a "grid" of internet-linked home computers.

    More:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4763854.stm
     
  2. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor

    Just read that it is pretty cool, be interesting to see what they will find out.
     
  3. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    very interesting article. Although given that the M3 used three out of five possible rotors, then each days traffic will have to be broken. That could take a great deal of time and effort.
     
  4. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    This is great news...they'll finally break these old messages. I believe that Bletchley never opened the German Gestapo code. Maybe we'll finally crack that and read those messages.

    The only problem is that this stuff is classified, so they can tell us what the message says...and then they'll have to kill us! :)

    Of course, given the heavy volume of messages and the trivia they often contained, these messages mentioned in the story probably concern the Winterhilfe fund, tonight's movies at the Soldatenkino, and court-martial proceedings for an Obergefreiter who was drunk on duty. :lol:
     
  5. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    I believe that Bletchley never opened the German Gestapo code.

    They never cracked the SS code as it was enciphered under a different system before being encoded by Enigma.

    Quite a few of the naval ciphers were never cracked, mainly because they invovled so much work to establish the ground settings
     
  6. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    They never cracked the SS code as it was enciphered under a different system before being encoded by Enigma.

    Quite a few of the naval ciphers were never cracked, mainly because they invovled so much work to establish the ground settings

    Thanks...I wasn't sure. I remember seeing a note in the novel "Enigma," of all places, that the SS or Gestapo code was unbroken. So the SS used Enigma as a "superencipherment," in which you encode the message and then encode it again.

    The novel has a lot of good color about the period and life at Bletchley, from what I'm told, but the basic thesis, that the Allies kept secrets and covered things up at the expense of their own values (Coventry in particular) is kind of annoying. The writer's main point is that nothing and nobody in the book are what they seem. Everybody's lying, except poor Tom Jericho, who suffers a nervous breakdown for doing so.

    But it's a good read, and it conveys British and Bletchley wartime life very well. The best part of the book is where Jericho and Hester are driving through England, and they realize just how exhausted and battered the British were after five years of war, and the limits to their resilience.
     
  7. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

  8. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

  9. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer Pearl Harbor Myth Buster

    If anyone is interested, we need proofers for:

    Ultra in the Atlantic: Vol. III, German Naval Communications Intelligence
    and
    Ultra in the Atlantic: Vol. V, The German Naval Grid and Its Cipher.
     
  10. Mark Hone

    Mark Hone Senior Member

    Geoff, as someone who is interested in codes and a History teacher I have long been considering a Maths/ History cross-curricular project on the topic for some of our 'Gifted and Talented' pupils. I would be grateful for any advice that you might be able to give. I have used the Babington Plot cipher and an Enigma emulator (courtesy of Simon Singh) in my teaching for several years.
    Mark Hone
    Head of History and Politics
    Bury Grammar School
     
  11. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer Pearl Harbor Myth Buster

    If any of you want a 'fun' challenge, I have photocopies of Japanese 'Purple' messages you could take a crack at. The Magic translations are online for checking purposes.
     
  12. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Geoff, as someone who is interested in codes and a History teacher I have long been considering a Maths/ History cross-curricular project on the topic for some of our 'Gifted and Talented' pupils. I would be grateful for any advice that you might be able to give. I have used the Babington Plot cipher and an Enigma emulator (courtesy of Simon Singh) in my teaching for several years.
    Mark Hone
    Head of History and Politics
    Bury Grammar School

    Mark, I'm a member of a small informal group called CSG - Crypto Simulation Group (although I'm not very active in it these days). Years ago, when we had produced some computer simulations of Enigma and several other machines, we approached the then education minister (Blunkett) with a view to getting some interest in codes and ciphers and cipher machines. We got an acknowledgement to our letter then nothing else! I think things have moved on a bit now and BP gets quite a few school trips. You are welcome to use my computer cipher simulators, which can be downloaded. If you can stretch the project out to cover technology, there is an excellent self-build electronic Enigma replica called Enigma-e, which is easy to build for someone with a bit of soldering experience and has excellent documentation. This includes some messages that can be decoded. Breaking them from scratch takes somewhat more effort, but the algorithm usually used is not very complex. The M4 project code is available as C source, which can be compiled locally - is that too advanced for your math students? I presume you have Singh's book? It's not one of my favourite (accurate?) books on the subject but it does give an excellent introduction to codes and ciphers used through history (I'm sure he covers Babbington). Playfair is another interesting cipher that is not to difficult to use and there are computer programs available for this. Have any of your students attempted the challenge ciphers in Singh's book? I may have another couple of book titles I could recommend - they are in a crate at the moment as I decorate (or should be) and I'm not 100% sure of the titles.
    I have not used the Simon Singh emulator, there are a few around now, the one by Dirk Rijmenants' is probably the best, although mine has a few more advanced features we used in our breaking project.

    Geoff
     
  13. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    If any of you want a 'fun' challenge, I have photocopies of Japanese 'Purple' messages you could take a crack at. The Magic translations are online for checking purposes.

    Done that one also..

    purple machine
     
  14. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    Mark, I'm a member of a small informal group called CSG - Crypto Simulation Group (although I'm not very active in it these days). Years ago, when we had produced some computer simulations of Enigma and several other machines, we approached the then education minister (Blunkett) with a view to getting some interest in codes and ciphers and cipher machines. We got an acknowledgement to our letter then nothing else! I think things have moved on a bit now and BP gets quite a few school trips. You are welcome to use my computer cipher simulators, which can be downloaded. If you can stretch the project out to cover technology, there is an excellent self-build electronic Enigma replica called Enigma-e, which is easy to build for someone with a bit of soldering experience and has excellent documentation. This includes some messages that can be decoded. Breaking them from scratch takes somewhat more effort, but the algorithm usually used is not very complex. The M4 project code is available as C source, which can be compiled locally - is that too advanced for your math students? I presume you have Singh's book? It's not one of my favourite (accurate?) books on the subject but it does give an excellent introduction to codes and ciphers used through history (I'm sure he covers Babbington). Playfair is another interesting cipher that is not to difficult to use and there are computer programs available for this. Have any of your students attempted the challenge ciphers in Singh's book? I may have another couple of book titles I could recommend - they are in a crate at the moment as I decorate (or should be) and I'm not 100% sure of the titles.
    I have not used the Simon Singh emulator, there are a few around now, the one by Dirk Rijmenants' is probably the best, although mine has a few more advanced features we used in our breaking project.

    Geoff

    Geoff, I'd be very interested in hearing your recommendations for good books on Enigma and a general introduction to cryptography.
    Last year I returned to fulltime education as a mature student, studying Computer Science and certainly want to learn more about cryptography. Just reading Copeland's and others, book on Colossus at the moment.

    My passions for history and computer science are merging!

    Lee
     
  15. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Lee,

    If you only read one crypto book and have an interest in Enigma and Bletchley park, it should be:

    Code Breakers: The inside story of Bletchley Park, eds. FH Hinsley & Alan Stripp. OUP 1993 (paperbacks also available)

    For an account of the first breaking of Luftwaffe Enigma and Bombe machines, from one of the designers of 'The Turing-Welchman Bombe':

    The Hut Six Story. Gordon Welchman, M & M Baldwin 1997.


    The original 'Crypto bible', (crypto history from the year dot) first published 1967 is:

    The Codebreakers. David Kahn.
    Note this is 1000+ pages, don't look at the abridged version. May be out of print and 'silly prices'.

    For an account of The Battle Of The Atlantic and Enigma:

    Seizing The Enigma. David Kahn. Souverir Press 1991 (also paperback)

    For WW2 codebreaking (Enigma, Purple, Japanese military) from an American author:

    Battle Of Wits. Stephen Budiansky. Viking 2000

    Similar coverage for Enigma (but both useful):

    Enigma. Hugh Sebag-Montefiore. Phoenix paperback 2001

    On Japanese codes:

    The Emperer's Codes. Michael Smith. Bantam Press 2000.

    A modern technical book (another 'bible') covering all codes and machines, somewhat more technical:

    Decrypted Secrets: Methods and Maxims of Cryptography. F L Bauer. Published Springer

    Geoff
     
  16. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    Fantastic Geoff, many thanks for the reading list. That will keep me busy! I've already read Sebag-Montefiore which was a great read and useful introduction. I'll certainly try to find the more technical books. Not sure if I have it in me but do want to learn more about crypto techniques. I'm at the very beginning at the moment. Just written a little steganographic programme to embed a text message or ID in a digital image. Child's play I know but it's a start!

    Thanks again,

    Lee
     
  17. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    There are few practical books on cryptanalysis, I know of two based on non-machine ciphers:

    Cryptanalysis: A study of ciphers and their solution. Helen Fouché Gaines. Dover Publications. (originally published 1939)

    Elemental Cryptanalysis. Abraham Sinkov. The Mathematical Association of America. (Dr. Sinkov worked as a cryptologist from 1930 to 1963 in the US War Department and Defense Department)
     
  18. beeza

    beeza Senior Member

    We tend to forget the power of the modern computer compared to the primitive
    equipment Bletchley Park had at their disposal during the war. I bet of they had
    the stuff we play about on these days the codes would have been decrypted in a
    flash
    David ._._.
     
  19. Mark Hone

    Mark Hone Senior Member

    Thanks, all. Geoff-I'm going to try the Purple emulator with a group of my very keen and bright GCSE Historians who are also Maths whizzes. I'll let you know how we get on!
     
  20. We tend to forget the power of the modern computer compared to the primitive
    equipment Bletchley Park had at their disposal during the war. I bet of they had
    the stuff we play about on these days the codes would have been decrypted in a
    flash
    David ._._.

    Makes the original Polish achivement of unraveling the Engima system, with just paper & slide rules and old fashioned spy work, seem fantastic.
     

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