Hope someone may be able to advise regarding the Who/When/Where of the attached photo of a White Scout Car with my guess British troops. I lifted the photo from a French military forum - so unfortunately cannot provide any further info. I have a White Scout Car and am looking to restore it to represent a vehicle in WW2 British army service - so many photos show the vehicle missing the front "anti-ditching" roller and this is the first I've seen with it still attached - would also be interested to know why the British Army removed this item. Any info gratefully received. Edit - Posted here because it appears to be a Radio Command Vehicle. Thanks Tim
Tim, I am pretty sure that my late father mentioned the 4th Reconnaissance Regt used White scout cars for a time in Italy. Regards Tom
Isnt that the 7th Armd Div sign on front wing? Red rat on black background . EDIT: ah maybe not, cos the red rat on black square was on uniforms only, wasnt it? vehicles had red rat on white square in NW Europe.
Owen - unfortunately I dont know enough about Div signs to know. Am assuming that the subjects are likely to be Phantom or ASSU... have seen several photos of Phantom units with the big generator trailer. Tim
I guess one approach would be for me to trawl through B/W photos of vehicles to see if any div signs look similar and then make a judgement on it. The headgear worn looks like G.S Cap... in which case would put the picture post sept 1943 to the best of my knowledge... therefore I think most likely somewhere post-d-day in NW Europe. Tim
Almost certainly a tentacle vehicle from ASSU early 1945. The markings do not mean anything to me but the wireless fit is pretty well unique and the trailer fits. I attach a page from the excellent Trux section. View attachment AIR SUPPORT SIGNALS UNIT.docx Mike PS. The vehicle is as described and I see a Canadian No9 wireless set plus the right number of aerials and a telescopic mount over the wheel arch. The lack of vehicle number and stars plus the odd markings could mean it is in post war French or Belgian service. The machine guns are non standard for a British vehicle.
PS. The vehicle is as described and I see a Canadian No9 wireless set plus the right number of aerials and a telescopic mount over the wheel arch. The lack of vehicle number and stars plus the odd markings could mean it is in post war French or Belgian service. The machine guns are non standard for a British vehicle. Thought perhaps a Canadian 52 set, but the No9 is more likely given the ASSU link and your interesting document. I assume the 10cwt stores trailer mentioned was the standard British Army 10cwt trailer with a large canvas top. Re markings - not sure in general, but for British Airborne, the army numbers were often only stencilled on the UK driver's side (not visible in this photo) and the rear panel (also not visible). Unsure how the numbers were applied in other units. Tim Tim
Difficult to tell a No52 set from a Canadian No9 set without seeing the front. I attach the establishment for a Phantom patrol late in the war. They did not pack equipment into the White but added extra vehicles. Here we have a jeep for the intelligence officer, a White and a wireless house with extra listening sets. View attachment Phantom Patrol in an Army Squadron 1945.docx Mike
Also, has US pattern Jerry cans and no ammo tin in the 50 cal tray... however, the radio aerial mast fittings on the side appear to be the same as those found on the side of the QLR. Tim
I don't think here is any doubt that the vehicle and fittings are basically British. The aerial mast racks are not in use because the vehicle is carrying 32 foot telescopic aerial masts, presumably there is one on the other side as well. These are used to support a wire aerial. They were used with Canadian No9 sets. The aerial supports on the vehicle are all typical of those used on British Whites. The White would be delivered complete with US Jerricans. Many were then delivered to Royal Signals and given standard fittings before being delivered to units who further modified them for specific roles such as this one. I do not know of a fitting/wiring diagram for this particular set up but there are for other fits and for the sets in other vehicles. Have you contacted Louis Meulstee who knows more about WWII British wireless equipment than anyone else? Mike
The attached drawing is the nearest I can find. It shows a No19 and 19HP installation. These two sets are similar in size and function to the Canadian No9 and No22. You can see that there is not much room for two AM 1143 sets and their batteries. Attachment failed. Do not know why. A Belgian correspondent tells me that although he cannot positively identify the markings they are in the style of those used by Belgium. Also there is a plate with census number on the extreme left of the picture which is also Belgian. A great deal of British equipment ended up in Belgian service after the war, particularly wireless equipment. I have reached the end of my limited knowledge. Let us know how you get on with your search. Mike
The attached drawing is the nearest I can find. It shows a No19 and 19HP installation. These two sets are similar in size and function to the Canadian No9 and No22. You can see that there is not much room for two AM 1143 sets and their batteries. Attachment failed. Do not know why. A Belgian correspondent tells me that although he cannot positively identify the markings they are in the style of those used by Belgium. Also there is a plate with census number on the extreme left of the picture which is also Belgian. A great deal of British equipment ended up in Belgian service after the war, particularly wireless equipment. I have reached the end of my limited knowledge. Let us know how you get on with your search. Mike Mike, Exellent knowledge and an interesting thread to read. Attachments tend to fail when too large. Try resizing. I use Microsoft Resizing programme, recommended by our mods and find the large size downloads well. Regards Tom
Trying again. Thanks Tom. I see now that there is even a little message saying that the image is too big.
While looking for something else I found a snippet about the rollers on White Scout Cars. This was a part of the original question. A White was tested at Chertsey in July 1941. It was reported to have given a sound all round performance BUT the armour protection was more moral than physical and the cross country performance was criticised. The front roller was described as useless, and even a handicap in some circumstances. The large overhang of the rear body tended to dig itself into the ground at any departure from the horizontal and the first thing to be buried was the towing hook, making recovery difficult. I have not read that rollers were actually removed from the majority of vehicles but I imagine there was little incentive to replace them if damaged. Rollers were removed and replaced by other items for some special roles. Mike
While looking for something else I found a snippet about the rollers on White Scout Cars. This was a part of the original question. A White was tested at Chertsey in July 1941. It was reported to have given a sound all round performance BUT the armour protection was more moral than physical and the cross country performance was criticised. The front roller was described as useless, and even a handicap in some circumstances. The large overhang of the rear body tended to dig itself into the ground at any departure from the horizontal and the first thing to be buried was the towing hook, making recovery difficult. I have not read that rollers were actually removed from the majority of vehicles but I imagine there was little incentive to replace them if damaged. Rollers were removed and replaced by other items for some special roles. Mike Mike Thanks for this. Has my mind made up - whilst I have an original front roller and associated fittings, I will not restore them to the vehicle, just keep them for the day I ever sell it on. Next challenge is to find the Wireless kit - I have a WS22, so am some of the way there. Cheers Tim
Mike Louis Meulstee - author of the "Wireless for the Warrior" series has confirmed this is an ASSU vehicle - his "Compendium No2 - page 60 has this documented. If Louis is happy I'll provide an extract here. Tim
Nice to be right sometimes. I have not kept up with Louis's publications and had not heard of the Compendiums until now. I shall probably have to buy them (or persuade someone that they would be acceptable as a birthday present). I see that the Compendiums are printed on demand. I have had publications from MLRS on this basis. It makes possible many titles which would otherwise be uneconomic to publish. Mike.
