PJX628485 - CH Kavanagh

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by SeanK69, Aug 19, 2021.

  1. SeanK69

    SeanK69 Member

    Hi,
    I'm trying to help my father piece together his service during WW2. He signed up in October 1943, going through basic training at HMS Collingwood before going to Copra. He served as spare crew for LCT's on D-Day and later sailed on LCT's to the Far East. Please could anyone tell me where I can find out more information? I have his original service record (S.-459) but the only ships/bases listed on it are: Collingwood, Copra, Terror, LCT(R) 435 & Victory.

    Many thanks,

    - Sean
     
  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Hello Sean and welcome

    If you post what you have on this thread forum members will be able to assist further

    Regards
    Clive
     
  3. SeanK69

    SeanK69 Member

    Hi Clive,

    Thanks, images attached
    - Sean
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Welcome to the forum.

    Hopefully Hugh MacLean will be able to assist you.

    Good Luck.

    Steve
     
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  5. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, as is so often with RN Service Records, there is little indication of where your father actually was or what he was doing apart from being in Combined Operations, as the Records merely show where his Records were held.
    HMS Copra = Combined Operations Pay Records and Accounts.
    HMS Terror was the Naval Base in Singapore (known as HMS Sultan 1940-42).
    LCT(R) 435 was a Landing Craft Tank (Rocket)

    From: British Landing Craft of World War II | Naval Historical Society of Australia
    "The most deadly of the Support Craft was the fantastic Rocket Craft, known as LCT(R). Colonel Langley of Combined Operations Headquarters was responsible for this most spectacular development of naval firepower, he had the inspiration to use 65lb explosive rockets fired from banks of projectors mounted in LCTs. A single craft could carry over a thousand of them. The drenching effect of a pattern of those rockets in a small area was far greater than could be achieved by any other means and often demoralised enemy troops at crucial moments of the assault. LCT(R)s were first used with great success during the Sicily landings. As the Highland Division got to within a half mile of touchdown, there was a roar from astern of them, and a sheet of flame leaped high in the air. There was a multitude of deafening crumps ahead of them as 2,500 rockets exploded on the defences; the troops landed with less than a dozen casualties, thanks to the deadly fire power of the LCT(R)s."

    Tim
     
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  6. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    It might be worthwhile applying to the MOD for his Service Records as what you will receive will be extracts from the P&V (Pay and Victualling) Ledgers (as the RN did not retain copies of the S459) which may just give some clues. As it appears from your post that your father is still alive, he can apply for free.
    Obtain information about yourself held by MOD

    Tim
     
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  7. SeanK69

    SeanK69 Member

    Thanks Tim - we are in the middle of applying for a copy of his service records but I was slightly worried that all we would get is the same information as we already had on his canvas copy
    - S
     
  8. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Tim has covered your options pretty well - I agree that you will hopefuly receive a little more in the way of detail from his P & V Ledger although it can be a bit hit or miss.
    RN records are very poor in that regard and when I was serving it was exactly the same and my S459 doesn't name all of my actual sea time.

    HMS COPRA- Combined Operations Pay Records & Accounts

    Regards
    Hugh
     
  9. SeanK69

    SeanK69 Member

    Thank you to all those that suggested we wrote to the RN for details from his P&V ledger. They have now come back and caused him even more confusion. For example, he is listed as serving on HMS Bronte from 02/01/44 - 30/09/44 after finishing at Collingwood.
    Not only does this cover the period of D-Day when he was spare crew on landing craft, we cannot find any information on such a ship or shore base. There is also no mention of HMS Terror, although that was on his canvas service record.
    Any further help anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Hi Sean,
    As I said in my #8, P&V ledgers can be a bit hit and miss and of course transcriptions from originals can also be a problem - you rely on the person doing the transcribing but sometimes they come up short when they come across dodgy handwriting.

    HMS TERROR was the Singapore Naval Base from 1946 replacing HMS SULTAN II some details here - SINGAPORE_RUN_DOWN_1971
    As for "HMS BRONTE"? nothing of relevance I can find as the only other ship's with that name were merchant ships - an incorrect transcription or typo? We know his accounting base was COPRA during that period and also he could have been on more than one ship during that time - I share your frustration with regard to the record.
    May be worth asking them again even if they could supply you with part of the original P&V Ledger so you could put more eyes on it.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  11. Steve49

    Steve49 Boycott P&O...

  12. SeanK69

    SeanK69 Member

    Hi Steve,
    I also saw this last night but it was sunk before he joined.
    My latest thought is that 'Bronte' may be an abbreviation and it is actually HMS Brontosaurus, No. 2 Combined Ops Training Centre in Dunoon, as is trained people on major landing craft such as LCT's - No 2 Combined Training Centre - HMS Brontosaurus (combinedops.com)

    Thanks again,
    - Sean
     
  13. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Yes, I would concur with that.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
  14. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    He was serving on several lct

    he was awarded

    39-45 star
    Atlantic star with France and Germany clasp
    Burma star with pacific clasp
    War medal

    he is also entitled to the legion de honour the french have awarded to all surviving veterans of d day

    you need to write to the mod medal office and they will tell you how to apply or google it

    regards

    James
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2021
  15. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    Hms Terror is misleading

    it was where he was being paid from. He was serving on the ship in brackets

    LCT R **** the same ship is listed on the P&V records this was out in the Far East

    regards

    james
     
  16. James Harvey

    James Harvey Senior Member

    I think it is HMS Brontes

    HMS Bronte was sunk 1939

    HMS Brontes was still serving 1945 when it was scrapped
     
  17. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    There was no HMS BRONTE - the ship I believe you are referring to is the Lamport & Holt steam merchant ss BRONTE - Bronte (British Steam merchant) - Ships hit by German U-boats during WWII - uboat.net

    HMS BRONTES was an anti-submarine trawler and therefore a sea draft which the P & V Ledger gives dates of Jan - Sep 1944. This goes against what the o/p has stated - that he was spare crew on an LCT around about June of 44.
    Also, anti-submarine trawlers tended to be crewed by fishermen reservists part of the RNPS with some H.O. ratings.

    So, IMHO, whilst there was an HMS BRONTE on anti-submarine duties there is always a possibility he could have served on her but given what we know, I think it unlikely and LCT crews within Combined Operations would be specialising in the craft they were trained for.

    Regards
    Hugh
     

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