Please could someone help??

Discussion in 'Recce' started by Jennie, May 12, 2017.

  1. Jennie

    Jennie Member

    I am hoping someone can help me, I am trying to locate possibly the family of my great grandfather.

    My great grandmother was Alice Maud Harbertson born 8th September 1912 in Northumberland, UK. We believe she was in service (housemaid/servant) down South in around 1931/1932 and living in the west Croydon area. Whilst there she met a man called Jim Wright, who we know to be my grandmothers father. She met him and was having an affair, then fell pregnant. Before the baby was born she moved back up North to Northumberland without Jim, had my grandmother (Florence May Harbertson b. 1934 and still alive) then soon after married another man called Richard Bond (b. 1911, Durham). Once my grandmother was of an appropriate age, it was never hidden that Richard was not her Father. When she died there were some letters left and some photographs .... these are the only clues we have left to Jim's identity.

    I have done a 1939 search which does not show Jim at the same address as the photo shows. The Address at the time was lived in by a Charles Henry James Bashford, Ada Elsie Bashford and a William John Bashford (1930-1932).
    Although the photo is not clear on here, the original which I have seen is a lot clearer and I can see that he was in the reconnaissance Unit of the Military from the cap badge and also the writing on his arm. Other than that I am massively stuck and not sure where to go from here [​IMG]:(

    I know this is more of a genealogy ask than a military one, but at this point i feel like the uniform and possibly where he may have been based etc is all i have left to go on...

    Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks, Jen
    [​IMG]
     
    ritsonvaljos likes this.
  2. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Jen
    OK we will have a good go. Jim (?James) is certainly Reconnaissance Corps, but unfortunately a fairly common name. Any other information, no matter how tentative? What is the address on the photo, is it Carshalton? You indicate that there is more than one photo, any other clues, places, colleagues names?

    What details, if any, for Jim are there on your grandmother’s birth certificate, occupation?

    One comment, which may sound strange, Florence May born 1934? The birth register entry seems to be Q3 1932.
     
    ritsonvaljos, Tricky Dicky and CL1 like this.
  3. Jennie

    Jennie Member

    Hi Tony, apologies, it is 1932, that is my error...

    Jim is not on my Grandmothers Birth Certificate. Although Alice, her Mother did tell her about him.
    The photo, the writing says, Best Wishes Alice.

    All i know is that he asked to marry her, she refused and soon moved back home (to the North East UK) and Jim went on with his life. My understanding of the Recon Corps is that this was only around 41-45? So the picture must have got to my Great Grandmother well after she was married (To Bond) and my Grandmother would have been quite an age.... so thats another mystery.....

    I have very limited information other than what was given.... i know it's a long shot and likely that nothing will ever be found, but i am nothing if not stubborn :)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  4. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Any thoughts on the dark stripe right on the edge of the photo? 53 Welsh Division?
     
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  5. Jennie

    Jennie Member

    Hi IDLER, The picture is a picture taken in my phone, i'm going to get the original off my auntie and scan it in properly hopefully this weekend. I do remember seeing some dark stripes on the arm on the left hand side as we look at the photo. I thought they were 3 v shapes, but people have thought they were just creases. I will be able to verify when I scan the original picture, but I do think there's something there.
     
  6. idler

    idler GeneralList

    It might help as he could be wearing a divisional sign under the shoulder flash. As there was only one Recce Regiment in a division, it should narrow the field considerably.
     
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  7. Jennie

    Jennie Member

    I'll definitely get it scanned this weekend, I'll also get copies of the other letters too and look for clues :)

    Thank you guys for your help :)
     
  8. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    These are quite late-war photos, with the War Economy battledress and particularly the 'jack-the-lad' non-uniform white collared shirt worn like that. If this was 1944 or so, he looks very young to have fathered a child twelve years earlier. Are the photographs definitely of Jim ?
     
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  9. Jennie

    Jennie Member

    Hi Rich, it's a thought that has crossed my mind too - he looks incredibly young, especially in the recce uniform. I'm working on the assumption that what my grandma was told is correct, but i'm sure you know yourself - info passed on through families is not always 100%.

    The big thing that makes me question everything is how she's even got the photos - it would mean they were in contact 10 years + after the affair.

    Blooming families! I'm definitely going to get the letters etc this week and double and triple check the photos to see if there is anything on them i'm missing.
     
  10. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    Could it be a 5th Division Y ?
    'Wheeled Odyssey', describes the original cadre of men for the 5th Recce Regiment as being drawn from various Battalions of the Rifle Brigade,
    "All were of the 26 year old call up and were practically 100 per cent Londoners"

    Screen Shot 2017-05-13 at 07.50.20.png
     
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  11. ritsonvaljos

    ritsonvaljos Senior Member

    Good day Jennie and welcome to the forum.

    Unfortunately I don't think I can add much. It may be a 'red herring' so just 'park it' if it no use to you.

    The fellow in the photographs could be aged early to mid 30s. Assuming the photographs date from 1941 - 1945 as you suggest, it would make him early to mid 20s in 1931 - 1932 which would be reasonably close to your Great Grandmother's age at the time (19 or 20).

    I looked at 'Free BMD' to see if there was the birth of a 'James Wright' in the Croydon district (1908 - 1912) and only one shows up: James Nelson Wright (registered March Qtr 1908). So far as I can see there are no other entries showing up for this chap (i.e. marriage or death) making it difficult to check anything else.

    Obviously the main problem you have at present is tying to narrow the search down. There is a Croydon Museum and Archives so if they had copies of old electoral registers for 1931 / 1932 you might be able to see registered voters at 36 Parsons Mead at the time. Even if it was just the parents of who you think could be your Great Grandfather it would give a lead to follow through.

    Link to relevant website page:
    Local studies

    Anyway, good luck with your quest.
     
    CL1 and Tricky Dicky like this.
  12. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Jennie, take it to your local computer shop & get it scanned. They can also enlarge the photo & print it off for you. I once did that with a small photo of my Granddads platoon, & the results where top draw. Many stripes appeared.:cool:
    Regards
    Stu
     
  13. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Ritson

    Death details:
    Name: James Nelson Wright
    Birth Date: 16 Jan 1908
    Date of Registration: Nov 1996
    Age at Death: 88
    Registration district: Eastbourne
    Inferred County: Sussex
    Register Number: A67E
    District and Subdistrict: 4541A
    Entry Number: 69

    TD

    edited to add:
    He appears on a family tree:
    James Nelson Wright
    1908–1996
    BIRTH 16 JANUARY 1908 • Raynes Park, Surrey, England
    DEATH 1996 • Eastbourne district, Sussex, England

    Is there a possible connection via the Raynes Park info??
     
    ritsonvaljos likes this.
  14. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Jen,
    When you are having a look at the information, could I ask you to clarify the addresses?
    The 1939 register for 36 Parsons Mead (as per the letter you posted), is occupied by a family with the name ‘Short’ plus one other that looks like ‘Hangleton’. There are two closed records.
    In your first post you mentioned an address occupied by the ‘Bashford’ family, what address was that?
     
  15. Jennie

    Jennie Member

    Hi everyone thanks so much for the replies.

    Tony - the address is 36 parsons mead - the bashfords were living there 1930 - 1932 :)

    Ritson - the family who were living there during that time were the bashfords as mentioned in the post above - I can only assume he was living there / or possibly was using that address for correspondence. My great grandmothers letters were hand delivered so I can only assume she lived close - I can't imagine cars were a big thing back then
     
  16. Jennie

    Jennie Member

    A lot of assumptions I know haha
     
  17. Jennie

    Jennie Member

    What is Raynes park info if you don't mind me asking?
     
  18. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    The family tree creator has noted he was born at Raynes Park, London, assuming he lived there for the most part of his young life, there may well be a house there that your relation was employed at as per your initial post -
    and so they may have easily met - or not as the case may be, just posing another possible clue (geographically speaking in the early 1930's)

    TD
     
  19. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    A very faint possibility of dating the first photo would be if you are able to get a better look at his shoulder title. The reconnaissance corps had two versions, the original authorised in July 1942, but withdrawn two months later. A second introduced in June 1943, with the word ‘Corps’ deleted.
    Shoulder title.jpg

    Then there is the colour of his beret, some information here:

    http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/beret-colours.68093/#post-733627
    It looks dark, ? black, if so post 1944.

    This 56 Recce photo was taken August 43 in Sicily, definitely khaki?
    56 Recce Adrano.jpg

    This photo, again 56 Recce, taken in Rome, so around May 44, definitely black?
    56 Recce Rome.jpg
    There again I understand that there were exceptions, provisos, caveats etc!!


    For what it is worth he doesn’t look much more than 20 to me – sorry!
     
    CL1 and Tricky Dicky like this.
  20. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Tony, I agree on the age and although they could presumably have had a photograph taken wearing what they wished, it just doesn't seem, prior to late 1944 or 1945 that many were taken with other than regulation kit. I'd put this chap as a teenager in the first photo and early twenties maybe in the second. I can't see the face in the second photo as being that of someone in his mid-thirties. People looked older in the 1940s. The working classes had a fairly hard life, had generally left school at 14 and there had then been five years of war. The photo below shows my Dad aged 22 in postwar Germany. He doesn't look all that much older now ! Afbeelding (37).jpg
     
    CL1, Guy Hudson and Tony56 like this.

Share This Page