Possible Irish Guardsman - Frederick Mansfield

If he was in North Africa & Italy he'd be 1st Battalion.
Did he ever mention Anzio?
I suggest you contact the Regimental Archives.

Regimental Headquarters
Irish Guards
Wellington Barracks
Birdcage Walk
London
England, UK SW1E 6HQ

 

Have you anything else?
Letters, photos?
Anything that might have his Army number on?

Oh yes, welcome to the forum, almost forgot to say that.

 

Hello Thomas and welcome to the forum,

I asked my nan about everything, and she had very little information, although she shared with me all her experiences of living in the centre of london as a young girl. Now those are some harrowing stories I do mean to write up. Either way, all she seemed to be able to tell me was that my grandfather served with the Irish Guards, for almost the full duration of the war. She mentioned that he served in North Africa and Italy.

As Owen has stated if all three are to be taken as true, then the 1st Battalion IG is the one in the running. I would take this as your starting point, it’s sounds right. However, the address he gave you is the one to which an application for records should be made as soon as possible. As your grandmother is still alive, she being next of kin, but having difficulties, I would suggest that you get her written consent to apply for records, ie her signature, and that your or your mother carry out the rest of the application on her behalf. In these circumstances, it would be difficult to say whether the fee, which is not applicable to a serviceman or widow, would be waved or not.

The only two specifics she ever told me were one humerous story, and one not so humerous. He had, at some point be promoted to Sgt. and then been stripped of his rank for calling one of his higher ups a very rude word. He once again got promoted to seargent. How much of this story is true I am unsure.

You can be guaranteed this, if he did ‘break the rules’, he would have been punished, but a good man is always needed. My own father lost his stripes for a similar disciplinary matter, still had his former duties to perform (with less pay), and later got back his stripes …

She also told me about incidents with flamethrowers, where they would call enemy soldiers out of bunkers, with no response, and so flame the bunker, and shoot the men that came running out. Again, I'm unsure how much of that is the truth, or repetition of a story and crossed wires between people.

My mother reiterated that my Grandad served in North Africa and Italy specifically, and therefore this ties into the Irish Guards again.


I will send you a link by PM which should help with story of 1Bn.

Now this is where things get a bit patchy. My grandfather was a Protestant from london, not the normal voulenteer for the Irish Guards. I'm unsure how much this affects the likleyhood that he was infact a member.

The fact that your grandfather was a Prod from London does not rule him out of the equation at all. His height and build may have ruled him in … if he enlisted, he could have chosen his Regiment, but otherwise he would have been sent to wherever he would have been needed or best suited. The thing about the IG is that they recruit from Ireland and main cities in England with Irish links, ie Liverpool Manchester London. The Micks do not distinguish between religions/politics, something which they pride themselves on. My father enlisted in Belfast, his best mate from Dublin …

Secondly, I do have his medals, but I am currently living away from home. I can get pictures/information on them if that would help anyone in the search for some information.

As was mentioned, any evidence by way of medals, photos, etc would be very useful to your research, but your first port of call should be IG HQ for your grandfather’s papers, which will provide you with dates, details and disciplinary records as well as whether he had been wounded, promoted etc.

I guess the real reason I am searching is this: My grandmother has recently, for lack of a better term, lost her mind. She's very very sick, and can't remember anything or even speak coherantly. This has really kicked it into gear that I should find out as much as possible about my grandfathers addition to the war effort, before the information is lost forever.


Next time you are at home, try and gather together all that the family has, usually this can lead to some useful conversations too … good on you for gathering and recording all the information about your family.

Best of luck, looking forward to seeing some photos,
Diane

 

Thomas,
Thought you might like to read this in meantime, the 'end' of 1st Battlion in WW2 ...

From pgs 358 to 359 IG History:

EPILOGUE TO ITALY

The 1st Battalion never fought again. Briefly, it was shipped home to England to re-form with new recruits, but soon found itself providing drafts and training men for the 3rd Battalion in Normandy. The intake of the Regiment was never enough to maintain three battalions on active service. Once the reservoir of trained men stored in Hobb’s Barracks from 1940 to 1943 was exhausted, one battalion had to be scrapped. The 1st Battalion stomached its pride, but it was not easy. The majority of officers and men were in time transferred to the 3rd Battalion. Major J.S.O. Haslewood, for instance, took over to Normandy a complete No. 4 Company which was first reconstituted in Italy.

For four weeks after its evacuation from Anzio the Battalion rested in the villages of Santa Agata dei due Golfe and Massalubrense perched on the top of the Sorrento peninsula. While the Great Men discussed the future of the Brigade of Guards in Italy - amalgamation, integration, reduction, abolition or reinforcement - the Battalion collected its wounded from every hospital in Southern Italy and Sicily. The bad cases were assembled in Naples General Hospital; the men on the mend were posted Sorrento convalescent camp and then, since there was very little difference, to Santa Agata. Vesuvius erupted soon after the Battalion’s arrival, the grey lava dust turning the next day into night, blocking the roads and changing the green valleys into a landscape of the moon. “It‘s the end of the world - it would be just before Paddy’s Day.” Guardsman Graham’s pessimistic forecast shows the Battalion’s main interest at this time - St. Patrick’s Day. The shamrock was flown from Ireland, and there was no question about who was to present it - it had to be General Alexander, Cassino or no Cassino. The Regimental Band was recaptured from the other side of Italy, calves and pigs were bought at exorbitant prices, droves of Italians were hired to clean and press battle-dress, and the awards were approved in record time so that General Alexander could present them on parade.

The 17th of March was a perfect day. General Alexander wrote to Colonel Scott that evening. “I do so heartily congratulate you on having such a splendid battalion. It was a real joy to me to be with them today, and I thought they looked just fin. Smart, proud of themselves - in fact, just what one wishes and expects Guardsmen to look like. It must have impressed all the on-lookers very much, like it did me. The Micks were always good (the best in the whole Brigade), but I really believe they were better today than ever they were or ever have been. I am only so sorry that I could not remain longer with you - go to High Mass and go round the company dinners, and then have lunch with you - but as you know I have this important and tricky battle of Cassino in full swing, and it must be won. This is my fifteenth St. Patrick‘s Day on parade with the Regiment and the fifth of active operations - not counting Constantinople and Gibraltar in 1922-4. Good luck to you all.”

The Companies marched straight off parade to monumental dinners. Lunch in the Officers’ Mess was very late and very long, as was the evening in the Sergeants’ Mess. A week later the officers gave a Grand Ball in their Mess, the Pensione Garoffalo in Santa Agata; the prolific Neapolitan nobility provided the partners. This was the Battalion’s farewell partly.

The 24th and the 201st Guards Brigades were amalgamated to form a new 24th. “24th Guards Brigade will receive 3rd Coldstream Guards complete and officers and men from 6th Guards and 2nd Scots Guards for their respective sister battalions. It will lose 1st Irish Guards.” The Battalion handed over all its equipment and packed for immediate embarkation with a skeleton 201st Brigade. At the very last moment Colonel Andrew Scott was snatched away to command the 28th Infantry Brigade. General Oliver Leese, who had just succeeded to the command of the Eighth Army, was not going to let so outstanding and experienced a soldier escape him. Both Colonel Andrew and the Battalion were stunned; he had brought them through so much, and now he was not to bring them home. He said goodbye to the companies on the evening before the Battalion embarked, leaving them in a loneliness that took all the zest out of the return to England. The following June, Brigadier Scott achieved what he and all the Battalion had so dearly wished to have together - an audience with His Holiness the Pope. The special blessing he received was for the 1st Battalion - “the Irish Guards who have fought so gallantly in this country.”

On the 11th April the Battalion sailed from Naples in the Capetown Castle. Of the 926 men who left Ayr in February, 1943, 326 landed in Liverpool on the 22nd April, 1944. On the beach-head the Battalion lost 32 officers and 714 men, killed wounded and missing. It left behind it in the graveyards outside Anzio 7 officers and 66 men. The bodies of some of the missing dead, such as the gallant Charles Bartlett, were found after the war; the others are still missing. “Quis separabit?” Wherever they lie, they are the 1st Battalion Irish Guards.