Post Traumatic Stress

Discussion in 'Veteran Accounts' started by Trincomalee, Oct 3, 2007.

  1. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    PTS. Stone me, are they still plugging away at this theme? Never suffered it myself, But as I said earlier I may have given it to someone in my younger days :)
    Sapper
     
  2. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

  3. Formerjughead

    Formerjughead Senior Member

    Wartorn 1861-2010

    This aired yesterday for the first time in North America.

    Restricted Content - HBO Canada


    Broken Heroes, a similar program focused on the Canadian experience, is also well worth watching and will stay with you for some time.

    http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2009-2010/broken_heroes/

    Started to watch it and turned it off as soon as it became a forum for persons seeking compenstion.

    Was there anything worthwhile in it?
     
  4. KentMunich

    KentMunich Junior Member

    :unsure: Hmm. I was rather afraid this might happen. I.e; Not a great deal. Now, even if it does move, it'll be buried. What ever.

    Sapper; Ever read Dr Moran's book? There's the stated findings of a qualified medic who saw what sounds like enough to form an opinion round. He was involved, in his capacity, in both WWs. I seem to recall he felt there were different factors to be taken into account in both.

    I wouldn't personally know about the more 'modern' theatres of conflict. (Not that I'd " personally " ~ in that sense, ye understand? ~ Know anything about any military action. I've never been in the military). But, my point is that I haven't read anything pertaining to this subject from a more modern perspective. Near as I can get is to say that, in my own opinion, Chrissie Walkin did an admirable job of portraying " PTSD " to the mass audience of " The Deer Hunter ", within the constraints of cinematographic presentation. I can base that opinion on personal experience.

    I have - and have yet to read - the book " Free Fall ". That appears to cover the subject of " PTSD " from a personal and more up to date perspective. I'm looking foreward to that one.

    Then, of course, there's the small point that I actually have Chronic PTSD. That diagnosis having been upheld, for fifteen years and more, by every shrink ye governments could throw at me. And they threw the best they had, believe me ;) To a man and a woman though, they all came back with the same answer. " Write Off! ".

    So, we may see that the medical profession ~ even those well and truly accustomed to warfare and what it involves ~ have constantly agreed with Dr Moran and his century since offered proposition that certain factors can conspire to drive some men 'over the edge'.

    You ~ if I'm reading ye correctly? ~ appear to question, if not the existance of any such 'condition', then perhaps the validity of a good many alleged cases? Obviously, ye'll correct me if I have that wrong.

    Then we have the very question of nomenclature; " Shell Shock ". " Battle Exhaustion ". " PTSD ". As touched on, above; I actually find myself wondering if these titles may not be as interchangable as some seem to think. I.e. that there may actually be quite different conditions, with equelly different causes and symptoms.

    I'd venture to suggest Moran deals with " Shell Shock ". Quite literally. He seemed to recognise it as often being caused by a shell. Simple as that. And I wouldn't say that I can even particularly see my own symptoms as matching too well with those he describes as a result of this 'Shell Shock' either.

    " Battle Exhaustion " ? Sounds somewhat counter to the suddenness of SS, doesn't it? Something more cumulative and pervasive? I'm not familiar with the term, or its symptoms. Can't really say much more on it. Only that it, by definition, sounds to need a bout of prolonged combat to bring it about, surely?

    " PTSD "? I'd suggest that can be brought on quite as suddenly as SS. Only it needn't involve shells or, necasserily, a " shock ". And, probably in common with all three; I'd suggest that by no means all the people exposed to a given situation will respond by developement of the accepted symptoms.

    But, here's the cruncher ~ for me: I often wonder how so very many men can have gone through the experiences of WW's and other such situations, yet come through them without a higher incidence of PTSD ..... Then I think of the so often heard, if whispered, tales of those they came home to; " He never spoke about it. " " He wasn't the same man any more. " " He had nightmares. " Classic symptoms of PTSD.

    Finally; I get the impression that one of the most practicle defences against the onset of PTSD is to 'talk about it'. To get off ones chest what one has been through. Get it out in the open. Right out of ye system, before it has time to mutate and start tearing ye apart.

    Dare I venture to suggest then that a forum such as this is probably the last place to seek veterens who recognise PTSD? Nor the various Associations and meetings of old comrades. Because the blokes who succumbed will be the ones who've never turned up. Who don't speak of their own experiences. The poor souls so often to be caught sitting silently in their armchairs, staring into middle distance .....

    :poppy:



    * Even just writing this post has really, Really taken it out of me. I feel like my head's in a vice now. Another symptom.


    Firstly thanks for the link Trincomalee. I will look at it now.

    Steve G - I know where you are coming from. Chin up

    Personaly I was in denial for years. ´´Im no soft bar_tard´`

    It took another sufferer, a US army ranger and my girlfriend, who was on the front line during the balkans war, to sit me down and make me recognise I had a problem that as a ´´tough´´ man I refused to admit.

    There are two types, from what I can tell. That brought on by a definate traumatic event. And that brought on by years of living in a tense state on edge and total control and then the person pops out the other end into a calm environment and cant cope.

    I still struggle with this - when I look at what people went though in WW2 - I dont feel I have earnt the right to have PTSD.
     
  5. KentMunich

    KentMunich Junior Member

    I don't think so. If anything the contention in this thread has only proven to illustrate how little is known about PTSD. All it takes is one person clicking this link and realising that PTSD applies to them; then everything is worth while.

    OF all the things that we discuss on this forum this is the one that can not only change opinions; but, change someone's life.

    I am willing to take a repeated beating over this, even if it means that my service is being maligned in the process. I don't care, no one should have to subject themselves, and their family, to the turmoil that PTSD creates.

    There is help and there are people that listen; often that is all it takes.

    This is the first time I have spoken about it for a while. As I have mentioned to people I know about my PTSD and I mainly get a blank look back. It is meaningless to them, they dont understand. Fair enough it is out of their life exerience. So I no longer mention it to anyone as a rule and keep it to myself.
     
    Formerjughead likes this.
  6. Formerjughead

    Formerjughead Senior Member

    I still struggle with this - when I look at what people went though in WW2 - I dont feel I have earnt the right to have PTSD.

    I thought that as well for quite a few years; I think thats why it took so long for me to figure out what was going on.

    Have you started getting things figured out ?
     
  7. KentMunich

    KentMunich Junior Member

    I thought that as well for quite a few years; I think thats why it took so long for me to figure out what was going on.

    Have you started getting things figured out ?

    Yes thankfully. Thank you for asking

    Although I found it hard to post about it. My fingers hovered over the keyboard for a long while.

    I became homeless for a while, not on the street mind just sleeping behind peoples sofas and the like and also would binge drink and grind my teeth to nothing at night ect etc.

    I met a lovely woman, who will be my wife soon, she survived the Balkans conflict on the front line and understands me. Has given me a lovely home, has calmed me right down in the middle of the night.

    I have now immersed my self doing second world war tours in Southern Germany. So I have tucked myself away and am ticking along doing something very stress free and often worthwhile (taking school groups round Dachau Memorial)

    So I am way better than I was.
     
  8. Formerjughead

    Formerjughead Senior Member

    Yes thankfully. Thank you for asking

    Although I found it hard to post about it. My fingers hovered over the keyboard for a long while.

    I became homeless for a while, not on the street mind just sleeping behind peoples sofas and the like and also would binge drink and grind my teeth to nothing at night ect etc.

    I met a lovely woman, who will be my wife soon, she survived the Balkans conflict on the front line and understands me. Has given me a lovely home, has calmed me right down in the middle of the night.

    I have now immersed my self doing second world war tours in Southern Germany. So I have tucked myself away and am ticking along doing something very stress free and often worthwhile (taking school groups round Dachau Memorial)

    So I am way better than I was.

    That's good stuff!!! glad to hear things are going well. It does take time to gain perspective and increase focus on other areas. Being aware that you have PTSD and accepting it, I feel, is a key component to to dealing with it healthily. Avoiding or being aware of the associative triggers is also a huge step.

    I am glad that you have found this thread to be a safe place to share your experience; it makes the turmoil worthwhile.

    Brad
     
  9. KentMunich

    KentMunich Junior Member

    How about you Brad? How are you getting on with it all
     
  10. Formerjughead

    Formerjughead Senior Member

    How about you Brad? How are you getting on with it all

    Quite alright actually thanks for asking. At the risk of opening an old can of worms or beating a dead horse, and all that, I do encourage you to read through this very thread. In retrospect it may have done me more good than I ever gave it credit.
     
    von Poop likes this.
  11. KentMunich

    KentMunich Junior Member

    Glad to hear it. Lets leave it there then. PM me if you ever want to chat
    Best wishes to you
     
  12. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

    Quite alright actually thanks for asking. At the risk of opening an old can of worms or beating a dead horse, and all that, I do encourage you to read through this very thread. In retrospect it may have done me more good than I ever gave it credit.

    Its is far from a tired old thread and one of the most controversial ones to date with many emotions coming out (both positive and negative).

    It is probably the most clinically enlightening to some as well.

    It is still and issue, and an ongoing issue, with the forces and emergency services, as well as those individuals involved in critical/crisis situations.

    Diggers' mental scars will remain long after Afghanistan war is over | The Australian

    Spider

    At Ease Mental Health - ASD & PTSD Treatment Algorithm
     
    dbf likes this.
  13. Formerjughead

    Formerjughead Senior Member

    Its is far from a tired old thread and one of the most controversial ones to date with many emotions coming out (both positive and negative).

    It is probably the most clinically enlightening to some as well.

    It is still and issue, and an ongoing issue, with the forces and emergency services, as well as those individuals involved in critical/crisis situations.

    Diggers' mental scars will remain long after Afghanistan war is over | The Australian

    Spider

    At Ease Mental Health - ASD & PTSD Treatment Algorithm

    My point is that I would regret reopening some of the less than cordial discourses this thread evoked.

    It is a very relevant and contemporary subject that needs to be kept current; hopefully, all sides have a better appreciation for eachother and we won't need to trod an already well worn path.
     
    dbf likes this.
  14. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Interesting to see there was a group of vets (The name escapes me) in the march past today at the London Cenotaph from WW2 onwards suffering from PTSD.
     
  15. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    We were founded in May 1919, just after the First World War. Our original name was the Ex-Servicemen's Welfare Society and we opened our first recuperative home in 1920 on Putney Hill in South West London.
    When the charity formed, it was ahead of its time. The prevailing attitude to mental welfare was, by today's standards, primitive, even barbaric.


    Yep
     
  17. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

    Quote:
    We were founded in May 1919, just after the First World War. Our original name was the Ex-Servicemen's Welfare Society and we opened our first recuperative home in 1920 on Putney Hill in South West London.
    When the charity formed, it was ahead of its time. The prevailing attitude to mental welfare was, by today's standards, primitive, even barbaric.
    Yep

    ;)

    Spider
     
  18. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    For the sceptics out there who didn't think it exsisted before WW2:

    Wonderful Shell Shock Recovery - four weeks before this picture was taken, these men were unable to walk.

    Probably shot at Netley Hospital 1917 and / or Seale Hayne Military Hospital 1918 (SL).

    Shell-shock victims; before and after. Some of this is disturbing. The before picture. A stark bare room; slightly crooked angle. A man enters; wearing only some small bit of fabric. He really can barely walk; he shakes and staggers; falls to the floor and shakes and bends into what seems unnatural positions; it looks as if he's having a fit.

    Then they show the same man afterward; fully dressed; he walks toward the camera with no problem. They show him standing facing camera; looking much better than before; however; his hands are fidgeting in a nervous habit. Then they show a CU of his hand with thumb rubbing the fingers. He probably did that the rest of his life.

    They also show a before of another man; who is in about the same condition.

    There's also a lovely shot panning over a beautiful vista - a rural scene of rolling hills; pasture; trees; and building part way down a hill; pan on to path; with a recuperating soldier strolling away from the path down the hill. Also a closer shot panning past large hospital. Brief shot of the 4 convalescent victims standing in front of a rustic farm building; one holding pitchfork.

    Note: the men are wear uniforms of medium-coloured trousers and jackets with white lapels and buttons, plus military-style caps - they look something like medical orderlies or postmen.


    WONDERFUL SHELL SHOCK RECOVERY - British Pathe
     
  19. spider

    spider Very Senior Member

  20. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

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