RAF 78 Squadron

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Merritt, Feb 27, 2009.

  1. 78SqnHistory

    78SqnHistory Junior Member

    To all those that are related to or who have posted requesting information on 78 Sqn can I ask that you PM or email me as I may have information that can help you but I am away from my records at the moment.

    Best wishes

    Daz
     
  2. giniharper

    giniharper Junior Member

    Hello all, I'm hoping you may be able to help me find out more about my drandad, Sergeant John Harper. He was an air gunner in 78 Squadron and was shot down (or died) on 31 July 1943. I have found his record at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission and found that he was buried in Germany, but I was hoping some of you might have more information on the squadrons operations at around that time, as I know very little about my grandad and his involvement in the war, and have not been able to find any information on the National Archives website. Thank you.
     
  3. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    These are his details:

    In Memory of
    Sergeant JOHN FRANCIS HARPER

    1083168, 78 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    who died age 30
    on 31 July 1943
    Son of William and Fanny Harper; husband of Margaret Harper, of Leamington Spa, Warwickshire.
    Remembered with honour
    REICHSWALD FOREST WAR CEMETERY

    Details of the loss:

    Halifax JD329 Information

    Type Halifax Serial Number JD329 Squadron 78 X1D EY-G Operation Remscheid Date 1 30th July 1943 Date 2 31st July 1943
    Further Information

    "Serial Range JD296 - JD333. 38 Halifax Mk.11. Part of a batch of 350 HP59 Halifax Mk.11. JB781-JB806; JB834- JB875; JB892-JB931; JB956-JB974; JD105-JD128; JD143-JD180; JD198- JD218; JD244-JD278; JD296-JD333; JD361-JD386; JD405-JD421; JD453- JD476. JD212 was used in rocket projectile experiments. JD300 was fitted with a .5 inch ventral gun position. Delivered by English Electric Co. (Salmesbury & Preston). Delivery dates for this batch as published in 'The Halifax File' are incorrect and are excluded from this record. JD329 was one of two No.78 Sqdn Halifaxes lost on this operation. See: JB375. Airborne 2208 30Jul43 from Breighton. Already Flak damaged, shot down by a night-fighter, crashing at Uedesheim on the W bank of the Rhine, 7 km SE of Neuss. Those killed were taken to the Nordfriedhof at Dusseldorf. Their graves are now located in the Reichswald Forest War Cemetery. Sgt R.Shelton KIA Sgt D.Williams KIA Sgt A.H.Marshall KIA F/O G.I.Whitehouse PoW Sgt J.F.Harper KIA F/S K.A.Skidmore RAAF PoW F/S G.A.Rourke RAAF KIA F/S K.A.Skidmore was interned in Camp 4B, PoW No.222446. F/O G.I.Whitehouse in Camp L3, PoW No.2032. "
     
  4. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Hello all, I'm hoping you may be able to help me find out more about my drandad, Sergeant John Harper. He was an air gunner in 78 Squadron and was shot down (or died) on 31 July 1943. I have found his record at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission and found that he was buried in Germany, but I was hoping some of you might have more information on the squadrons operations at around that time, as I know very little about my grandad and his involvement in the war, and have not been able to find any information on the National Archives website. Thank you.



    Halifax II JD329 EY-G of No.78 Squadron was lost on the night of 30-31 July 1943 on a raid to Remscheid. the aircraft had taken off from Breighton at 2208 hrs and was hit by flak before being attacked by a night-fighter and crashing at Uedesheim on the west bank of the Rhine....

    Crew details......

    Sgt. R. Shelton +
    Sgt. D. Williams +
    Sgt. A H. Marshall +
    F/O. G I. Whitehouse pow
    Sgt. J F. Harper +
    F/S. K A. Skidmore RAAF pow
    F/S. G A. Rourke RAAF +



    The Remscheid raid of 30-31 July 1943

    273 aircraft - 95 Halifaxes, 87 Stirlings, 82 Lancasters, 9 Mosquitos - were dispatched to the previously unbombed town of Remscheid on the southern edge of the Ruhr; only 26 people had been killed in Remscheid, by stray bombs, in the last 3 years. This raid marks the true end of the Battle of the Ruhr. 15 aircraft - 8 Stirlings, 5 Halifaxes, 2 Lancasters - were lost, 5.5 per cent of the force.
     
    roundakela likes this.
  5. RAFCommands

    RAFCommands Senior Member

    Not quite the text from Vol 4 of Bomber Command Losses 1943.

    This should be correctly quoted as:
    Hit by flak before being finished off by a night-fighter, crashing at Uedesheim on the W bank of the Rhine, 7 km SE of Neuss.

    Ross
     
  6. tonycroucher

    tonycroucher Junior Member

    Ref: 78 Sqdn 28 May 1941 Kiel

    Hi, 2nd attempt - going to advanced and back again erased all I had entered before. However, abbreviating, my uncle was Sgt Alfred Thomas Copley and I have a letter from his CO concerning him being missing from the raid on Kiel plus a photo of him.

    If you are interested in a copy please let me know.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
    Pieter F likes this.
  7. Merritt

    Merritt Junior Member

    Thanks to the folks who have made subsequent posts on this thread. I have PM'd a couple of you.

    Neil
     
  8. giniharper

    giniharper Junior Member

    Hello, thanks to all of you who replied with information about my grandfather, John Harper. Gini
     
  9. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Worth cross referencing before posting.....

    The above loss was Whitley V N1361 GE-F No.58 Squadron. Records show that it was F/L I L. McLaren who belonged to No.78 Squadron.

    I appear to have posted this on a less appropriate thread :-

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/war-air/21289-raf-losses-may-1940-update-33.html

    The photo shows N1361 as EY F and the grave marker of McLaren in the same eBay sale suggests that it is one and the same loss.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Tony H

    Tony H Junior Member

    Hi

    I anyone is interested in news on 78 Sqn or has information re family relatives who served on 78 Sqn, please get in touch when able


    We will be on parade for the unveiling of the BCM in Green Park 28/6/12

    Nemo Non Paratus

    Kind Regards

    Tony H
    78 Sqn
     
  11. Lyntonjenkins

    Lyntonjenkins Junior Member

    My Uncles crew took part in an operation on this date which is listed in his log book as being;

    Base (Dishforth) - Marne - Wismar, 1 stick on target, Wismar - Marne - Base.

    I am having trouble understanding why they would fly down to Marne in mid France from Yorkshire then head north to bomb Wismar on the Baltic Sea and then return by the same route. All in all they must have at least quadrupled their time in enemy skies.

    Bomber Command War Diaries list this night as simply; Germany, Holland, Belgium, France - 89 aircraft to bomb a variety of target's.

    Can anyone through any light on this?
     
  12. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    Hi,

    If you look at a map of the German defences around this time, the coast of Northern France and Holland was covered with fighter and in your case night fighter bases. If the intruders survived this they would be met by heavy flak defenses all the way to the target. By dropping South and coming up, they would have been able to avoid many of these.

    At this time, it was left to the crew and the Squadrons which routes to take but later on this became part of the target instructions from Bomber Command Group. Later, they were also fairly clear where all the main fighter and flak concentrations were, learning from their mistakes.

    Regards,

    Nick
     
  13. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    My Uncles crew took part in an operation on this date which is listed in his log book as being;

    Base (Dishforth) - Marne - Wismar, 1 stick on target, Wismar - Marne - Base.

    I am having trouble understanding why they would fly down to Marne in mid France from Yorkshire then head north to bomb Wismar on the Baltic Sea and then return by the same route. All in all they must have at least quadrupled their time in enemy skies.

    Bomber Command War Diaries list this night as simply; Germany, Holland, Belgium, France - 89 aircraft to bomb a variety of target's.

    Can anyone through any light on this?

    I would agree that this is a strange route to take to a Baltic port target and if correct, a route that in hindsight,was not neccessary.

    The fact is that the Germans at this stage of the war did not have a coordinated night fighter organisation apart from flak defences for the western approach to the Ruhr valley industry.At this time Kammhuber had just been given the task by Goering to set up and organise the building of a night fighter force.This was a result of the first night raid conducted by the RAF over Germany on 15-16 May.The "Kammhuber Line" as his radar//night fighter/flak defence system was referred to by the RAF, gradually extended his defence line,first of all to defend the route direct into the Ruhr by December 1940,then in stages established a defence system extending from Oslo,through Denmark,Holland,Belgium to the south of Paris.

    Marne is a relatively large French Department as is Haute Marne and in the route plot,the navigation turn point is not accurately given.

    In July 1940,it would have better to overfly Denmark or Schleswig Holstein then direct to the target.This tended to be the route chosen later to access the German heartline as Kammhuber extended his defence line to cover the Low Countries and Schleswig Holstein.Later the route over Denmark was similarly covered but offered less risk to overfly,not having the intensive coverage of the Kammhuber Line in the direct route to Germany.

    Routes south of Paris were only used by the RAF to outflank the French end of the Kammhuber Line for access to Italian targets and targets in Southern Germany.

    Its a mystery why this route was chosen....might have been on account of intelligence available at the time.
     
  14. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Should have checked my German map before.

    Satisfactory explanation.

    Marne is a small town in Schleswig Holstein.It is 95kms north west of Hamburg.

    So the route of the Whitley would be Dishforth,across the North Sea making landfall at Marne on the north bank of the Elbe estuary.Skirting Cuxhaven to the south,then across Schleswig Holstein, skirting Lubeck,a short distance to the south and then on to Wismar (approximately 30kms east of Lubeck) would complete the route to the target.
     
  15. R1155

    R1155 Junior Member

    Am posting on behalf of a friend who is searching for details on her cousin missing/killed in action on 6th October 1944.
    Apart from above the only other details we have from MOD is AC2 Robert Heugh was attached to 78 Squadron Bomber Command.
    Details of mission and flight path on any mission for the above date would be greatly appreciated.
     
  16. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Am posting on behalf of a friend who is searching for details on her cousin missing/killed in action on 6th October 1944.
    Apart from above the only other details we have from MOD is AC2 Robert Heugh was attached to 78 Squadron Bomber Command.
    Details of mission and flight path on any mission for the above date would be greatly appreciated.

    Robert Heugh was a Sergeant Rear Gunner on Halifax 111 Serial No MZ 310,one of three No78 Squadron aircraft lost to flak on the raid to the Scholven-Buer synthetic oil plant.These raids were part of the overall plan to deny the Germans petrol and oil lubricants. This was a daylight raid,aircraft being up in the early afternoon (1432hrs) from RAF Breighton (Selby to Market Weighton Road a few miles East of Selby).Successful returning aircraft would have been back early evening.

    Bombing was reported to be successful in clear conditions.It is not known if the aircraft was lost on the outbound route or home route but all apart from Sgt Heugh whose body was not found are buried at Bergen Op Zoom War Cemetery.Sgt Heugh as a declared missing casualty is remembered on the RAF Memorial at Runnymede

    Sgt Heugh's aircraft was carrying a crew of 8, possibily a second pilot who would be gaining experience before being given his own aircraft and crew.

    (It would appear that F/O D S MacGregor RCAF was the second pilot.Again "second pilot" was not a designation for the Halifax but as indicated, the operation represented an opportunity for a pilot, just out of training,to experience an operation against the enemy.)

    Sgt Heugh would have been an AC2 throughout his aircrew training but would have promoted to Sergeant from AC2 on passing out from his gunnery course.
     
  17. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    From: Chorley 1944 page 442

    [FONT=&quot]78 Sqn [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Halifax III[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]LL588 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EY—O [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]T/o 1430 Breighton. Collided in the air with another Squadron Halifax, both machines falling on, or near, the Dutch Reform Church at Oude-Tonge (Zuid-Holland) on the island of Overflakkee where Sgt Lockett rests in Den Bommel General Cemetery. The others lie in Bergen Op Zoom War Cemetery.[/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]F/O R L Stanley+[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Sgt G E Kemp+ [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Sgt G H Habgood+ [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Sgt J A McKillop+ [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Sgt A Moss+ [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Sgt H Lockett+ [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Sgt G H Tilburn+[/FONT]

    =======================================================


    [FONT=&quot]78 Sqn [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Halifax III [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]MZ 310 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]EY-U [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Op: Scholven-Buer[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]T/o 1432 Breighton. Lost to the circumstances described previously." Seven rest in Bergen Op Zoom War Cemetery, while panel 231 of the Runnymede Memorial commemorates the name of Sgt Heugh.[/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]F/O C W Crawford +[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]F/O D S MacGregor RCAF +[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Sgt A Reilly +[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]F/S C R Clement +[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Sgt J B Anderton +[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Sgt J Divens +[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]F/S J R Charley RAAF +[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Sgt R Heugh +[/FONT]
     
  18. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Thanks Geoff for the clarification.

    Looking at the map of the lcation of the crash site.

    The island of Overflakke sits in what is really,the outlet to the North Sea of the Rhine.

    The cemetery at Den Bommel is roughly 20 miles north of the Bergen Op Zoom Military Cemetery.
     
  19. R1155

    R1155 Junior Member

    Harry and Spidge...
    On behalf of myself and friend, I sincerely thank you both for your quick and erudite replies.
    We have been on this search for a considerable time now and to say the least, had the sparse official papers from Mod not mentioned 78 Squadron we would still be searching.
    Best wishes,

    Malcolm
     
  20. R1155

    R1155 Junior Member

    Gentlemen I'm delighted to say my friend, the cousin of Robert Heugh has touched base with mckeesie in Holland.
    She has also passed on the following two photographs with appropriate titles.
    Robert's record for January 1943 is shown as 99 M.U. Best wishes
     

    Attached Files:

    Harry Ree likes this.

Share This Page