Recovered British Aircraft in India.

The serial number is unreadable but it appears to have an L prefix. Can anyone please identify the type of aircraft that has been recovered?

 

Is it a D.H. 28b Queen Bee, or a Tiger Moth?

https://live.staticflickr.com/1515/25942319803_165f130df5_b.jpg

 

It appears to have two cockpit screens, thus a Tiger Moth I'd suggest. The Queen Bee fuselage was also different to the Tiger Moth, using wood and ply rather than a fabric covered steel frame.

 

Many thanks for the information. I have read that Tiger Moths were used in India as Communications Flight aircraft along with Austers, Harvards, Fox Moths, and Sentinels amongst others.

This particular aircraft seems to have been recovered by a M.R.U. operating out of Trichy in 1942/43.

 

Intersting photo, I read the serial as L?2?8 in the format of two alphabets and three numbers.

Only one possibility for that combo
RAF Aircraft Serial Numbers Database

LR228

From Malcolm Filmore's list at https://air-britain.com/pdfs/production-lists/DH82.pdf

3880 (Gipsy Major #81554) CofA 6492 issued 27.1.39 to de Havillands India. Regd VT-AKW (CofR 368) 12.1.39 to The Bengal Flying Club Ltd, Calcutta. Regn cld 13.5.42. Toc by RAF as LR228 3.7.42 and to 22 Anti-Aircraft Co-operation Unit, Drigh Road. Crashed/dbf oto from nr Poonia, nr Katnia 21.6.43.

There is likely Katni airfield where 22 AACU was based https://goo.gl/maps/acFFZVcQwYhHcVU58

 

Jagan,

many thanks for the correct identification which I believe is confirmed by a close up of the serial number in the photograph.





The photograph of the Gypsy Major came in a lot of photographs that once belonged to a Repair and Salvage Unit that was based in Trichinopoly from 1942, so probably 121 R.S.U. later reformed as No 5 Repair and Salvage Section, No 138 Repair and Salvage Unit, a subsection of 118 Maintenance Wing from 29th September 1943.

That they were based at Trichy is confirmed by other photographs in the lot.







Now that the aircraft and the unit are identified, I can seek out the unit war diary and see if I can find the details of the other recovered aircraft that there are photographs of.

 

Thanks High Wood

But i am now second guessing myself - the second digit looks like a 3 than a 2... so another possibility is LR236 (LR238 doesnt exist)

From Malcolm's production lsit

370 (Gipsy Major #178) Shipped 5.41 to RAF Depot Karachi. Regd VT-AQE 29.8.41 to Govt of India. Regn cld 19.5.42. Impressed as DP259 .41 (not used?). Impressed as LR236 3.7.42 at 1 SFTS, Ambala. To 1 Coastal Defence Flt, St Thomas Mount. To RNARY Coimbatore [12.43; 2.44]. Fitted with Gipsy Major #85252. To RNAMY Tambaram [2.44; 8.44]. To Colombo [8.44; 9.44]. Psoc 1.1.47.

Now going for LR236 is the fact that Both St Thomas Mount and Coimbatore are in southern India , and Coimbatore being quite close to Trichy.

Going against this being LR228 is 1). Katni is really so far away from Trichy 2.) The prang for LR228 was quite serious. injuring both the pilots, one of the pilots seriously enough to be admitted to the hospital Indian Air Force Aircraft Data [www.bharat-rakshak.com]

Your photo does not show major damage that appears to have injured the pilots.. so I wonder if it was LR236 on some soft forced landing at Coimbatore/Trichy area which was previously unrecorded...

 

Jagan,

thank you for your further thoughts. The serial number is hard to decipher accurately due to the poor quality of the photograph and I agree that LR236 is a definate candidate, not least due to the location in Southern India.

That said, there is a write up of the activities of No 5 Repair and Salvage Section, No 138 Repair and Salvage Unit in the book, The Bamboo Workshop. The history of the RAF Repair & Salvage Units India / Burma 1941-1946 by R.S. Sansome.

It states, "With the formation of 118 Maintenance Wing in November 1943, No 5 Repair and Salvage Section came into being on the authority of an AHQ India Formation Order dated 29th September 1943. It was a ready made unit, formed from the disbanded 121 Repair and Salvage Unit with a technical and domestic site on the Sempura Road close to a small Indian village on the north bank of the River Cauvery, near Trichinopoly in southern India.

Like 139 RSU, which had been formed at the same time, its lines of communication were extensive and stretched as far as Bombay, 900 miles to the the north west. On one occaision they were stretched even more when a detachment from Poona was sent a further 900 miles to salvage a Spitfire (JF893) which had crashed landed at Shikapur on the borders of Baluchistan".

There are photographs of several other recovered aircraft but very few have readable serial numbers. One that does, a Beaufighter, has very little written about it in the Squadron Record Books.



The Serial Number appears to be LX881 of 27 Squadron. The RAF Commands website gives the following. Crash landed Trichinopoly, 8th August 1944. Aircraft flew to Trichinopoly with under carriage trouble and made a successful belly landing. Crew: F.O. Groome and F.O. Donaldson.

The 27 Squadron Operations Record Book (Summary of Events) states only: Cholavaram, 8/8/1944. Fighter affiliation. One aircraft flew to Trichinopoly with u/c trouble and made a succesful belly landing.

I think that the key to these photographs will be to locate the O.R.B. for the 138 RSU.

Researching old photographs is never straight forward without any other information than can be gleaned from the photographs themselves. I have several candidates for the original owner of the photographs but without their service papers being in the public domain, I cannot prove my theory. Only one of the photographs can be tied down to an individual and only then, because he wrote his name and address and service number on the back of the photograph.

 

Would love to see photos of other aircraft if any - especially the unusual types - Lysanders, wapitis , any other biplanes

 

There are very few photographs of the more unusual aircraft types. There are a few interesting Hurricanes photographs that it might be possibe to identify despite having no serial numbers visible.

 

Another Hurricane.

 

Wow!, Interesting photos of the Hurricanes! always love these.

The second photo of the overturned Hurricane would so fit this example i quote...

This appears to be a beach , the Hurricane is carrying out the Type A roundel under the wing .. no cannon or no gun ports outside of the landing lamps, so a rare Mk 1 that fits in with below.. as does the timeline of late 1942...

1942-10-18 Hurricane I AF960 Juhu Engine lost power during aero. Overturned on FL at Juhu 2m South of Virar. Gill was ferrying ac from Karachi to Trichnopoly when he force landed at Juhu. A sgt pilot took up the ac after repair and wrecked it.

Ofcourse this is speculation at best.

Also is it me or is the starboard wing (on the far side of the photo ) painted a darker colour - or is it just the harsh sunlight playing tricks on one wing vs the other?

 

It would appear to be an early photograph as the salvage crew are wearing 'Bombay Bowlers' rather than slouch hats. The comment that the aircraft has overturned seems to be appropriate.

Luckily there are several photographs in this sequence. In the next picture the remains of the propeller have been removed.

 

They appear to have put some of the propeller housing back in place now that the aircraft is upright.

 

Flat bed recovery lorry.

 

Wow, again!

This picture clearly shows the black/white paint demarcation line under the nose and fuselage - so there is NO doubt at this point.. that the starboard wing is painted black and port wing is white - I have NEVER seen a Hurricane from the SEAC theatre with this scheme - EVER.. so you have something here

Also i think i see the fuselage aircraft code "W" here.. not much to go on though..

 

Ha! I was wondering why he was digging a pit in the ground below the cockpit...

now i realised it is where the inner wing stub was to go when the aircraft fuselage is "rolled" towards the right (looking forward)

 

Hello all, i was alerted to this discussion by Jagan on facebook.
in this image,

note there look to be possibly a start of a serial, by the crooked arm of chap standing to the left of the W. Also, just visible, look down from the wing, there looks to be a squadron leader pennant painted below the cockpit, one of these.

EDIT above the pith helmet of the chap in the hole.


this image

shows that a C1 type roundel. While obscured, the nose looks to be the longer Mk.II, and left of the roundel, 3 men, between 2 and 3, part of a serial.
Jagan, any records of a Mk.IIa flown a lot by a Squadron leader and in a crash? Mk.IIa's are not that common, so that might help?
More likely at this date than a Mk.I being flown by a Squadron leader, unless in charge of a training unit?

 

I am not sure that it is a Squadron Leader pennant below the cockpit. It appears to be two lines of writing, possibly the name of the aircraft. I can enlarge various areas of the photograph to see if anything else is revealed.

 

If you can play with the photos in a graphics program, that may reveal more, bit of this and possible serial.
Re the possible Sq Ldr pennant.
It's in the right place and size for one, and looks to be one, the two light lines look to solid to be writing. For reference here's Bader's Hurricane with pennant.
I maybe wrong, it's a suggestion, when it comes to images like these it's worth testing out ideas. I know I'm 'new' here but I have spent a lot of time staring at Hurricane photos and trying spot details.
Anyway, thank you for posting up these fascinating images, Hurricane photos I have not seen before are always a treat as far as I'm concerned!