Researching Grandad (Eighth Army)

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Richard Harrison, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    ... and my dad got given a "burns Book" which Ken had sent to his mother on july 11th 1940 apparently this was sent from Jerusalem as a gift, surely this must be a mistake ? could the RSF have been in Jerusalem then ?
    No way, July 1940 they were in Scotland reforming after evacuation from Dunkirk.
    2 RSF never got to Jerusalem until July 1944 well after your Grandad had left them.
     
  2. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    yeah i thought as much... and why send a burns book from the holy lands..... makes more sense to send it from Scotland.
     
  3. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    also i have just noticed i have gone up to full cpl on my banner, what does the axe mean ? is this relavant to my grandads regiment or something ? or should it be the Y

    :)....EDIT:- fixed it got the 5th Div and the 46th Div insignia now ;)
     
  4. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    Thought i would add the letters that grandad received from his father whilst serving, the letters are addressed to him being 2nd Bat RSF however OP Avalanche is written all over the leter in red ink, it was my understanding that OP avalanche was 46th Div KOYLI, this is where iam getting confused.

    1st letter dated 6th August 1943.

    Dear son Ken
    we recieved your cable on Wednesday August 4th, it was dated July 20th ten days after the invasion of sicily began and we were more than pleased to get it and hear you were in the best of health, from what we heard on the wireless about the travels of the 5th division i somehow couldnt help but connect you up with them they have been mentioned quite a lot in the news of late and at the moment the going seems to be very hard but somehow i feel sure you will be allright so take care of yourself. Perhaps I am wrong in thinking you are in the 5th but the discription of their travels in scorching heat and freezing climates seems to tally very closely with your letters, we were pleased to get that cable as the mail has not been coming in at all regular lately it was about 4 weeks since we had last letters and we are hoping to get them more regular now, dont get me wrong son i am not complaining i know you write when you can and do much better than i could if i was in your place we know it is not your fault if they dont arrive but we do like to hear from you often. We received a letter yesterday dated June 27th You have had no mail for a month well Ken I expect you will get a bag to yourself when they do arrive, Marion wrote you quite a lot when she was here in that letter you are asking what the weather is like this summer here, and hoped Marion would have an enjoyable time well Ken she did enjoy herself and M'a got out quite a lot, the weather was not too bad during her stay here it could have been better, but it was about the best we had 2 hot days then a thunder storm followed by half a gale and buckets of rain, i expect you will be well informed about how she spent her holidays before you secure this we have told you all about it in previous letters, I havent spent that small fortune as you call it on the old bus yet, it is still doing its stuff very satisfactorily so perhaps I had better hold on until you return so dont delay too long I would be delighted to see you having a go at it, it would be worth that small fortune. So heres wishing you all the best will fondest love from all at home.......Dad.


    (I know there are punctuation and spelling mistakes but i wrote it verbatum)

    second letter:-

    dated August 14th 1943

    Dear son Ken
    We recieved your letter dated August 6th It was almost six weeks since we heard from you last excepting the cable we had. We did not know for certain that you were in Sicily but when your mail did not arrive as usual we began to think you must be there, and things surely have been lumming with you during the past few weeks, however things seem to have turned up very well I should think you are just as well where you are the longer you stay where you are the better, I hope you are not feeling too bad M'a was quite happy to know you were out of it, judging from the news reports Sicily has been rather a hard nut to crack but it seems to be just about all over there now and the next one is likely to be harder still it would be quite an experience for you to be helped away by plane from the scene of the dark and dirty deeds of the past few weeks i should think it would be quite exciting to get a view of the island from the air but i dont suppose you would be in a condition for excitement you must have been feeling pretty bad otherwise you wouldnt have had that oppertunity. By the way Jimmy Lawson is here on 48 hrs leave this week and he's getting quite a regular visitor, you surely got a real pocket of mail when you were on that fair isle. M'a wrote to Marion when we received your letter and received one from her the same day she didnt know you were in hospital she had just received a letter from you, it was dated much earlier than some she has had, Well Ken I hope things are going well with you and take care of yourelf, I hope it wont be long before we hear from you again, everything is ok at home and the news is very good just now and one just gets that feeling that the end might not be so far off now, it is just about 3 months since we had anything over here and if he does visit us again heel get a hotter reception than ever. I will write you again tomorrow for the present look after yourself and maybe will be seeing you soon. All the best and love + best wishes from all at home.......Dad
     
  5. fatman

    fatman Junior Member

    just to say Richard, a very nice collection
     
  6. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    yeah i just bought an original combat blouse in my size, going to put the 5th div insignia etc on, i noticed on the pics that grandad had three horizontal bars under the 5th div "Y" anyone know what this sign means ?

    cheers

    Richard
     
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    i noticed on the pics that grandad had three horizontal bars under the 5th div "Y" anyone know what this sign means ?
    It denotes the junior brigade of the division.
     
  8. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Here a picture of 2 RSF just before going overseas.
    From the Div History.
    Sorry I never posted it before.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    excelent picture Owen ! strange how some wear the tam o shanta and some the glen garry ?

    i have struggled to get Grandads service records, i completed the SAR which was returned from glasgow advising i do not submit this for ww2 records ? anyone able to assist ?

    got my carrier home now so once i have made progress with it i will post up some pictures.

    Richard
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Richard,

    If I remember correctly from speaking to Glasgow the SAR form is for current serving personel or if applying for your own service records.

    Either way the link below has all the info you need mate:

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/searching-someone-military-genealogy/19865-latest-information-forms-service-records-2009-a.html

    Regards
    Andy

    Looking at the picture all the NCO's are wearing Tam's and the Tom's are wearing Glen's. Just an observation so don't know if thats a coincidence or not.
     
  11. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    right going to try again for the military records, thanks Andy. the link does not have info on where to download the actual forms, does anyone have this ?

    My dad and I are going over to Italy in September / October to re trace Grandads route, problem is i am in dispute with my dad as to wheather he was with 2nd RSF or 2/4th KOYLI 46th div, my argument being on his letters which were sent to Fusilier K Harrison (hq coy) it has OP AVALANCHE on which i believe was the invasion of Italy. my dad thinks he may have been KOYLI at this point as he recalls his dad talking about the "Black Cats" who were with them during ops saying his dad (Ken) talking about...and i quote

    "PS I remember your grandad saying that after Salerno they went round the base of vesuvius via Pompei and took Naples. As did the Black Cats. Then onto Capua where they were supposed to cross the Volturno, they actually crossed 7miles down stream at Grazzine."

    its all as clear as mud ! we will see i hope the military records will shed some light on this debate.


    Rich
     
  12. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    It's not confusing at all.
    He'd was with the KOYLI after he'd been to hospital.
    Thought all this had been explained.

    excelent picture Owen ! strange how some wear the tam o shanta and some the glen garry ?

    Officers & Warrent Officers in glengarries & Other Ranks in tams.

    Your Grandad's realtives who sent this would not have known he was in hospital & then posted to the KOYLI, that's why they using his old address.
    That why it crossd out old address & 'Adm Hosp' in red. Admitted to Hospital.


    [​IMG]
     
  13. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    yes but why was his letters addressed to Fusilier Kenneth Harrison 2nd Bat RSF Hq coy 5th Div if he was in the KOYLI by this time do you see my point, surely it should read 2/4th KOYLI the OP avalanche is written on the letters addressed to the rsf. so did he land as a fusilier or a pte for KOYLI only theory i have is he as we previously discussed had changed to KOYLI and then landed at Salerno, family sent him the letter addressed to his previous regiment who then forwarded it on, so the letter would appear to be sent to fusilier harrison but infact at this point he was Pte Harrison, not sure if i am making sense but i am trying my best.

    second issue is if you look at the picture of the regiment all stood together there is a chap on the back row far left, this is Cpl Jack Hindle, i am now pals with his grandson (who also drives carriers !) he has pictures of Jack who was reme attached to 2nd bat RSF stood on a Bridge in Italy with a group of RSF lads one being my grandad. i have photos of Ken (on here) stood on the same Bridge with some different lads all RSF believed to have been taken the same time as Shauns pics.

    so you see my issues, i have no doubt this will all be explainable hahahaha
     
  14. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    hahaha just pipped me owen. so i presume the post master had written op avalanche to as this would get sent to the postmaster for that op who i presume would then be able to forward it on to 3133174 Harrison. so i wonder what the situation is with the photo's
     
  15. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    This photo ?

    stood on a Bridge in Italy

    [​IMG]

    I say it wasn't Italy.
    They're in battledress so has to be taken before summer of '43 as by then they'd be in khaki drill on Sicliy & in Italy.
    I reckon it's late 42/early 43 .
     
  16. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    right then, where was it would be my next question, Shaun was told by his grandad it was Italy. i suppose even Tunisia they would be in Khaki. where ever they are it sure looks like the med, not Inneskillen Northern Ireland thats for sure :)

    clearly still RSF at this point though.
     
  17. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Might have been taken when they were with PAI Force, when they at Qum, Persia
    You've a letter from there from November 42.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I'd say it more likely SYRIA as 5th Div spent some of 1943 there.
    Training for Sicily.
    17th Inf Bde was in Damascus in April '43.
     
  19. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    cheers Owen, i do appreciate your help ! i suppose his records would show where and when he was ? or are they not as detailed as that ?


    cheers again

    Richard
     
  20. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

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