I will be going back to the WW2 Italian battlefields this May; I will be visiting a number of CWGC cemeteries and am happy to take digital photos for those who want them. At the moment, I know I am going to Cassino War Cemetery, and will post others here as and when we decide them.
Originally posted by Paul Reed@Feb 19 2004, 04:23 PM I will be going back to the WW2 Italian battlefields this May; I will be visiting a number of CWGC cemeteries and am happy to take digital photos for those who want them. At the moment, I know I am going to Cassino War Cemetery, and will post others here as and when we decide them. Paul I would be very pleased if you could take a photo at Cassino for me, not of a grave but part of the memorial. I have an interest in Lt. Eric Fletcher Waters of the Royal Fusiliers. He was killed at Anzio on 18th February 1944, and has no known grave. His memorial is just his name on a pillar at Cassino War Cemetery. This was the father of Roger Waters, of Pink Floyd fame. Roger wrote some songs for his father, notably "When the Tigers Broke Free", which is about "C" Company of the 8th Royal Fusiliers being overrun. Lt Waters' death is depicted in the film "The Wall".
Originally posted by Paul Reed@Feb 20 2004, 11:55 AM No problem, Tony. Will add it to the list. An interesting one! Thanks Paul. I also found out that Roger Waters grandfather was killed in WW1, and posted my guess about who he was in the "Baker Pals". Never got a reply! All that is known for sure is posted below, but I found a likely candidate in the CWGC Register. "Waters lost his father at Anzio in 1944, when he was one, and his grandfather to the trenches of the First World War. His grandfather had been a coal miner in the drift mines of County Durham, and latterly Labour agent for Bradford; his father, a communist Christian. Both men loved the English landscape. "You could not fail to be a communist then. The children of Bradford did not have shoes or clogs but rags about their feet," says Waters." Out of interest, here is Roger Waters song about the death of his father at Anzio. "When The Tigers Broke Free" It was just before dawn One miserable morning in black 'forty four. When the forward commander Was told to sit tight When he asked that his men be withdrawn. And the Generals gave thanks As the other ranks held back The enemy tanks for a while. And the Anzio bridgehead Was held for the price Of a few hundred ordinary lives. And old King George Sent Mother a note When he heard that father was gone. It was, I recall, In the form of a scroll, With gold leaf and all. And I found it one day In a drawer of old photographs, hidden away. And my eyes still grow damp to remember His Majesty signed With his own rubber stamp. It was dark all around. There was frost in the ground When the tigers broke free. And no one survived From the Royal Fusiliers Company C. They were all left behind, Most of them dead, The rest of them dying. And that's how the High Command Took my daddy from me.
Paul, Thank you for your kind offer. Two of the Old Boys of Thetford Grammar School are in Italy: Jack Utting Garrod, Second Lieutenant, 315360, Royal Norfolk Regiment, died 4 July 1944 is in Arezzo War Cemetery - Grave Ref. I.C.13 Geoffrey Reuben Long, Lance Bombardier, 1115163, 254 Bty., 64 Field Regt., Royal Artillery, died 7 October 1943 is in Naples War Cemetery - III.H.3 Once again thank you for your help in this matter. Best wishes, David
I know we won't be going to Naples, as that's a bit far off our route. However, the Arrezzo isn't impossible. I will let you know nearer the time.
When I did a mini-battlefields tour to Cassino a couple of years ago (in the middle of a Classics trip to Rome and Pompeii) we stopped at the monastery and cemetery briefly but were unable to get to the Jefferson VC site in thetime available. I know Jefferson's Company Commander in 2nd LF, Colonel Kevin Hill MC, very well. He is an old boy of Bury Grammar School and until his retirement last year the Honorary Colonel of our CCF.
Mark - would be grateful for any more info on this, as we are going up the Liri Valley, and from memory that's where this action took place?
Paul, I've got a lot of information on the VC action, some of which of course I can't lay my hands on at the moment, but I will root in my files for. It includes a map with the exact site of the action as marked by Colonel (then Captain) Hill. His words to Jefferson as he raced forward with his PIAT in a one-man attack on two German Panzer IVs were apparently 'Get down you bloody fool!' Strangely this does not appear in 'The Victor' comic version of the incident!
Paul, At Primary School we always had Remembrance Day service opposite the plaque to Thomas Hunter VC, an ex-pupil. His citation reads: On 2 April 1945 at Lake Comacchio, Italy, Corporal Hunter, who was in charge of a Bren gun section, offered himself as a target to save his troop. Seizing the Bren gun he charged alone across 200 yards of open ground under most intense fire towards a group of houses where three Spandau machine-guns were lodged. So determined was his charge that the enemy were demoralized and six of the gunners surrendered, the remainder fled. He cleared the house, changing magazines as he ran and continued to draw the enemy fire until most of the troop had reached cover and he was killed, firing accurately to the last. My late Uncle, another D-Day dodger, used to play football with him at school and told me ' He never flinched going in to a tackle with anyone ' so he was not surprised he won a VC just sad he was killed. Are you going anywhere near Argenta Gap Cemetery?? A photo of his grave would be appreciated if you are. He is at Grave III, G. 20. ARGENTA GAP WAR CEMETERY Aye Malcolm
Paul-I have retrieved the stuff from my immaculately ordered filing system. It includes Colonel Hill's post-war battlefield tour notes written in his inimitable, no-nonsense style. Not only does it describe the Jefferson VC action (which indeed took place in the Liri valley 16th May) but also gives a vivid insight into the logistical problems of the Cassino battle. On 16th May the LF jumped off from the point captured by 5th Northants the previous day. I am an honorary 'Steelback', my dad serving with 1st Battalion (the old 48th Foot) in Burma 1944-5. I'm assuming that you are still at your 'Sommecourt' address but could you confirm this off forum and I'll send you copies of the material I have.
Just for info: Alan Whicker (of 'Whicker's World' fame) is making a programme for Channel 4 called 'Whicker's War'. He was an officer with the Army Film and Photo Unit in Italy in WWII and will be retracing his route during the war. He was interviewed on BBC radio 2 yesterday and said that he was amazed at how many places were still exactly as he remembered. "Whicker spent 650 days in Italy, dodging the enemy and capturing the arrival of allied troops on the beaches between 1943 and 1944. Their unit travelled through Salerno, Naples, Rome, and up to Milan, where they witnessed Mussolini's lynching. In all they took 200,000 still photographs - including all the pictures of the 5th and 8th Army during the Italian campaign." Steve
Thanks Steve - yes, I'd heard this from a friend in the BBC. It sounds like it could be interesting, and possibly one of the few programmes on the Italian campaign to be screened this year.
Hello Malcolm, very pleased to see your school commemorates Tom Hunter VC. I believe a block of flats were named after him and a few years ago a formal memorial was unveiled at the ferry port. Also think his sister married a Councillor or MP, which no doubt helped? If you’ve quote from your school’s plaque, it’s good to see they haven’t exaggerated the story as some books and websites have done. It’s a shame if they don’t mention that Hunter was with No.43 Commando Royal Marines, part of 2 Commando Brigade. Again, if this is per the plaque, I’m afraid there is one major error. Hunter was killed on 3rd April, not 2nd April. I know there’s a website of VC’s that states the 2nd, but they’re wrong too and have been told. Who says so apart from me? The Commonwealth War Graves Commission, the War Diaries and the survivors of No.43 who were with him. The action was Operation Roast, to take and hold the Comacchio Spit, Italy, being the ribbon of land that separates the Comacchio lagoon from the Adriatic Sea, which started on the evening of 01 April, 1945. The object for battle on 02 April was to assault on both flanks with a feint attack mounted in the south, and secure the bottom half the Spit up to the Bellocchio Canal which dissected it. No.43 were on the east coast, Nos.2 and 9 on the west and No.40 RM in the south. By teatime on 02 April, the Commandos were resting at the Bellocchio Canal, job done – Hunter was still alive. On 03 April after the main bridge was repaired, No.2 advanced up the west of the Spit (supported by tanks of the North Irish Horse) and No.43 up the east with No.9 placed in reserve owing to the actions and casualties they experienced the day before. No.40 stayed in the south. No.43 progressed up the eastern Adriatic side, negotiating a minefield and clearing strongpoints, villages and farmsteads as encountered. Late afternoon they were several hundred yards from the Valetta Canal which dissected the top of the Spit. Vegetation and other cover was sparse here and they came under fire from machineguns in a farmstead on the south bank of the canal. It was at this point Hunter made his charge and cleared the farmhouse with his comrades following. However, the position was untenable as on the north bank of the canal where a number of fortifications and entrenched positions which now started to fire on the farmstead. Hunter went outside and lay down on a pile of rubble to engage the machine guns firing from the north bank and draw their fire. This he did until struck by a bullet in the head and killed instantly. The Valetta Canal was not crossed by 2 Brigade and it was decided it should be tackled by a separate set-piece battle. The Commandos held a line south of the canal until 04 April when they were relieved by the Guards, and prepared for their next task on the other side of the lagoon in the battle for the Argenta Gap. I have a recent picture of his grave which is the same as the others in the cemetery except for the inscription. If I can accomplish the digital sequence of getting in onto my computer I’ll mail it to you. If you ever visit yourself, be advised it’s not the easiest cemetery to find and the modern, but small, town of Argenta is unremarkable. No.9
2nd Lancashire Fusiliers material is on its way to you, Paul. I would be grateful for any photos of the area if you get there. Sadly on our visit in 2002 we only had time for a quick visit to the Monastery and the Cemetery.
Thanks Mark - much appreciated. If you have sent it to 'Sommecourt' it will find me okay. I will do you a CD of some photos after we have visited the area. Malcolm - we might be going to Argenta Gap, so I will be photographing this grave anyway. Will keep you posted.
No 9 - thanks for that additional info on Hunter. Is the date of his VC still 2nd April? I have him down on the Italy VCs page of my site as having died on the 3rd, which is what I got from CWGC. See: http://battlefieldsww2.50megs.com/italy_vcs.htm
You’ve lost me a bit here Paul? The site I had in mind is the usual one search engines tend to bring up when you key in ‘Victoria Cross’, which is ‘Victoria Cross Reference’ site. If you go there and look-up Hunter, they state ‘2 April’. http://www.victoriacross.net/award.asp?vc=610 Over the years I know they’ve been advised several times, but never replied to anyone and never made the correction? <_< No.9
Yes, I know which website you were referring to, but you suggest in your previous post that there is some doubt about the day he died - is there also doubt about the day he got his VC or is it one and the same day? His citation on the CWGC doesn't mention a date: http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_...asualty=1716660
There is no ambiguity about the action Hunter was awarded the VC for, nor the time, date and location where the incident took place. The private enthusiast’s VC website has it wrong – no more complicated than that. There is also one so called ‘history’ of the Royal Marines that is so badly written the reader could reach all sorts of conclusions from it. I don’t even want to mention it by name but suffice it to say it’s been kicking around for a good few years and there’s paperback remainders in circulation for a few pounds, in my opinion £1.99 too much!. One example of it’s poor quality, it states; ”2 Commando Brigade spent a few weeks in the line and moved up to Lake Comacchio on 2 April 1945”, and then 3 paragraphs down, ”The attack went in on 1 April”. No.9
