Richard Thomas, died 14.11.1944

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by BereniceUK, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. BereniceUK

    BereniceUK Well-Known Member

    Any Welsh speakers here? I've done a literal translation of this family gravestone inscription, is there a better translation of "brofiadau chwerw"? Can anyone find a cause of death and his unit, if there was one?

    The headstone is at Llanallgo, Anglesey.

    Richard Thomas
    who died November 14, 1944,
    in his 43rd year.
    as a result of bitter experiences
    at Dunkirk, June 1940.

    Edit - He's named on the Moelfre memorial, and as being from 12, Sea View, Moelfre, which is also the address given for Hugh Thomas (his father?) at the head of the gravestone.


    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
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  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member


    The only 1 I can find at present that would 'fit' the bill is:
    UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
    Name: Richard Thomas
    Given Initials: R T
    Rank: Fusilier
    Death Date: 17 Apr 1944
    Number: 4197089
    Birth Place: Anglesey, Isle of
    Residence: Anglesey, Isle of

    Branch at Enlistment: Infantry
    Theatre of War: Burma
    Regiment at Death: Royal Welch Fusiliers
    Branch at Death: Infantry

    Maybe someone with info on RWF could say if they were at Dunkirk and in Burma

    Doesn't show up as an FE POW

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  3. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    Google has a slightly different translation
    Has Died November 14.1944 aged 43 as agreed outcome to bitter experiences in Dunkirk June 1940.
    The inscription below that translates as
    Went in to the cosy haven of peace, the sound of the storm to hear!"

    His father died 14th April 1944.

    Maybe a very sad tale, behind this grave stone.
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  4. BereniceUK

    BereniceUK Well-Known Member

    I wonder if he could have been part of the civilian crew of a boat involved with the evacuation, and was injured in some way? The churchyard that this gravestone is in has several men remembered there who were lost on ships during WW1, and Moelfre used to be a herring-fishing port.
  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    OK starting to get somewhere

    Richard (Dick) Thomas
    BIRTH 1898 • Moelfra, Llanallgo
    DEATH 14.11.1944

    His father:
    Hugh (Swnt) Thomas
    BIRTH 1861 • Amlwch, Anglesey, Wales
    DEATH 14.4.1944 • Moelfre

    His mother:
    Mary Owen
    BIRTH ABT 1872 • Newborough, Anglesey, Wales
    DEATH 14. 01. 1954

    His brother:
    John Thomas
    BIRTH 1894
    DEATH 1.10.1919

    Occupation 1915 Mate on Mary Goldsworthy,master Wm Roberts Gwelfor

    There is reference to her here (page 4) -

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  6. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    The Llanallgo burial register has the following entries:

    Name: Hugh Thomas
    Abode: 12 Sea View, Moelfre
    When buried: April 18th 1944
    Age: 83

    5 unrelated burials, then:

    Name: Richard Thomas
    Abode: 12 Sea View, Moelfre
    When buried: November 18th 1944
    Age: 46

    There are no ‘multiple’ burials i.e. on same day that might indicate a major event of some sort.

    Is there a John, also on the headstone? In which case:
    Name: John Thomas
    Abode: 14 Sea View Terrace, Moelfre
    When buried: October 6th 1919
    Age: 25

    Name: Mary Catherine Thomas
    Abode: 12 Sea View, Moelfre
    When buried: January 16th 1954
    Age: 87
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  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
    Name: Richard Thomas
    Birth Date: abt 1898
    Date of Registration: Dec 1944
    Age at Death: 46
    Registration district: Anglesey east
    Inferred County: Anglesey
    Volume: 11b
    Page: 477

    Thanks Tony that confirmed his age/year of birth, had been working on him born 1901, as it said aged 43 at time of death (1944)

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  8. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    A bit more on the Mary Goldsworthy.
    1915 Mate on Mary Goldsworthy,master Wm Roberts Gwelfor.
    As a result of his bitter experience at Dunkirk ,June 1940.

    July 1914,

    Monday 6 – Pwllmelyn’s mare kills herself by running into a wall.

    Friday 10 – Shift until 4, went home for tea then back to unload the coal ship all night. Pay £1-17/4d.

    Saturday 11 – Unloading coal from the ship until 9:30am. The ship was called the “Mary Goldsworthy”. (schooner)

    Wednesday 22 – Shift, unloading the Mary Goldsworthy. (photo)
    Snippets from the diaries of Griffith Thomas, Ael y Bryn Rhiw.
    Type of Llyn sailing ships
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
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  9. BereniceUK

    BereniceUK Well-Known Member

    Yes, Hugh, John and Mary are the other names on the gravestone.
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  10. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    In the 1939 Register Hugh (dob 7 Nov 1860) and a Catherine M (12 Mar or May 1872) were living at 12 Sea View.
    Plus one closed record.

    Hugh’s occupation is:
    Morwr SS Glynarthen
    Wedi Ymneilltuo

    Morwr means sailor and Wedi Ymneilltuo could be something to do with retirement.
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  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Found this - Royal Navy ships of World War 1, based on British Warships, 1914-1919 by Dittmar and Colledge
    KILDRESS, Kil-class patrol gunboat, ordered from 7.17, double-ended appearance to confuse enemy, known as fast trawlers until 18.1.18, Adty No. 4031. Launched 13.4.18 Cochrane. Probably completed before war's end, served in Auxiliary Patrol, possibly one of 11 of class fitted as minesweepers. Sold 21.11.19 Thornycroft, renamed GLYNARTHEN.

    Don't know if this was used at Dunkirk??

  12. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    His cause of death will be stated on his death certificate. Perhaps unlikely., but if (big if) there was some connection with Dunkirk in 1940, it could be mentioned. It should also have his occupation.
  13. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Probate records:

    Thomas Richard of 12 Sea View Moelfre Llanallgo Anglesey died 13 November 1944 Administration Bangor 11 December 1944 to Mary Catherine Thomas widow. Effects £219 9s.

    Thomas Mary Catherine otherwise Mary of 12 Sea View Moelfre Anglesey widow died 14 January 1954 at the Valley Hospital Valley Anglesey Probate Bangor 12 July 1954 to John Williams local government officer. Effects £342 9s 9d.
  14. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    We know his occupation was a Sailor as he was a mate on a schooner in 1915.
    His gravestone and other memorials say he was at Dunkirk.
    This line on his gravestone tells us he was still a sailor by the words HAVEN and STORM
    "Went in to the cosy haven of peace, the sound of the storm to hear!"
    It also tells us that this man was very troubled either with physical injuries or other.
    And in my opinion reveals the cause of Death. As I said in post 3 a very sad story.
    A very tragic victim of the war.
  15. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    No mention of a Richard Thomas only an Owen Thomas.
    The S.S. Scotia was built by William Denny and Brothers Ltd in Dumbarton, launched in 1921 she was 3441 tons. She was owned by the London & North Western Railway (L. & N.W.R.) and operated as a ferry between Holyhead and Dublin with a crew predominantly from Anglesey.
    Holyhead Memorial to H.M. Transport Scotia - Sunk at Dunkirk

    A vivid account.
    H.M.S Scotia
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  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hmmm - I would still be interested to know what his death cert says, maybe 'whilst the state of his mind was disturbed' - sad story 4 and a half years after Dunkirk.
    Wonder if he made it back uninjured, or rescued by another ship and 'just went home with his thoughts' ??

  17. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    Another Small boat at Dunkirk. HMS Salvor.
    Connection to Richard Thomas read on
    Salvor | Association of Dunkirk Little Ships

    The crew of the 1927 rescue................................................... R Thomas
    r t.jpg

    Courtesy Huw Roberts on Ancestry. I have informed him of this thread.
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  18. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    Forgot to mention Richard's father Hugh (bottom right in photo) was also in the crew
    and two crew members were awarded the RNLI gold medal, all the remaining crew were awarded Bronze medals.

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