Royal Ulsters - What was happening in April 1945?

Discussion in 'British Army Units - Others' started by pmcrory, May 10, 2006.

  1. pmcrory

    pmcrory Junior Member

    Linking to my Irish Guards post, James McRory's brother, Paddy McGrory, was sadly killed 2 days later, on the 26th April 45, serving as a Rifleman in the Royal Ulsters. Coincidentally they are buried in the same cemetary in Becklingen (Soltau).

    Can anyone tell me what the Ulsters were up to here at this time; and if they were part of the same formation as the Irish Guards Armoured? Thanks.

    Paul
     
  2. raf

    raf Senior Member

    hi my Grandad was in the royal ulsters rifles Frank Weston he was one of a few only english men in this regiment.

    http://www.royalirishrangers.co.uk/rifles.html

    at the end of the war some moved onto palastine. I'm trying to find his paybook and once i have his army number i will post asking for some more info
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    <TABLE class=datatable cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="97%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR id=tr_name><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Name:</TH><TD id=td_name>McGRORY, PATRICK</TD></TR><TR id=tr_initials><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Initials:</TH><TD id=td_initials>P</TD></TR><TR id=tr_nationality><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Nationality:</TH><TD id=td_nationality>United Kingdom</TD></TR><TR id=tr_rank><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Rank:</TH><TD id=td_rank>Rifleman</TD></TR><TR id=tr_regiment><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Regiment/Service:</TH><TD id=td_regiment>Royal Ulster Rifles</TD></TR><TR id=tr_unittext><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Unit Text:</TH><TD id=td_unittext>2nd Bn.</TD></TR><!-- <tr> <td vAlign="top" align="left" width="30%">Force:</td> <td id="td_force"></td> </tr>--><TR id=tr_age><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Age:</TH><TD id=td_age>20</TD></TR><TR id=tr_death><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Date of Death:</TH><TD id=td_death>26/04/1945</TD></TR><TR id=tr_service><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Service No:</TH><TD id=td_service>14424793</TD></TR><TR id=tr_type><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Casualty Type:</TH><TD id=td_type>Commonwealth War Dead</TD></TR><TR id=tr_grave><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Grave/Memorial Reference:</TH><TD id=td_grave>8. G. 2.</TD></TR><TR id=tr_cemetery><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Cemetery:</TH><TD id=td_cemetery>BECKLINGEN WAR CEMETERY</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    2nd Bn Royal Ulster Rifles were 3rd British Division.
    sapper's old unit. He'll tell you.
    My books are packed away ready to move house so sorry can't look them up.

    Why have the Brother's got different surnames? Mcrory & McGrory ?

    Contact their Museum at
    The Royal Ulster Rifles Museum

    Regimental Headquarters
    The Royal Irish Rangers
    5 Waring Street
    Belfast
    BT1 2EW Tel: 028 9023 2086
     
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Attached Files:

    • RUR.jpg
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  5. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    I have seen service with the Ulster Rifles, had lunch with the Colonel that commanded them on D Day, while doing a programme for the BBC TV. I have that on tape here somewhere.

    The Sappers served with all the regiments sooner or later. My knowledge of the Ulsters is limited. but if there are any questions that I could help with? I would be pleased to assist
    Sapper
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    2 RUR were in 9th Brigade, 3rd British Division.
    On April 26th 1945 they were fighting in Bremen.
    See map.(taken from 43rd Wessex Div history.)
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    [​IMG]
    Try and find this book too.
    I'd look in mine but it's packed away.
     
  8. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Or this one.
    http://www.play.com/Books/Books/4-/815816/-/Product.html?searchstring=assault+division

    This book, first published in 1947 and therefore not reliant on secondhand sources, details the full story of one Division, the 3rd, from its preparations for the Normandy landings through to the reduction of the city of Bremen and the surrender of Germany. The author, who served in the Division, is able to describe events from the point of view of the fighting man. This is a true classic of military writing and a book of major importance. It is the story of their training for the amphibious assault on Hitler's 'Atlantic Wall', very thoroughly planned and rehearsed in the months before D-Day. The Division's commander at the outset of the war was 'Monty' Maj-General B L Montgomery, who was succeeded by Maj-General T G Rennie, and Bolo Whistler, a distinguished armoured brigade commander from the North African campaign. The Division's assault on Sword Beach on D-Day was remarkably successful, though the follow through to take the city of Caen that day proved altogether too 'aspirational' for one division.Later in the campaign, the 3rd Division was particularly proud of its conduct in the battles for Overloon and Venraij, and in the even more intense fighting between the Maas and the Rhine.
     
  9. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    This book: Assault Division is a reprint of the original. If you can get hold of it...It is in my view, the best and most "honest" of the war books.

    It is entirely about the Third British Infantry division in Europe. I also have Monty's Ironsides. given me, and signed by the then General Mike Jackson now commander in chief. Of the two Assault Divisioin is by far the best
    Sapper
     
  10. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  11. pmcrory

    pmcrory Junior Member

    Why have the Brother's got different surnames? McRory & McGrory?


    A question I ask myself also. The Irish spellings were pretty interchangeable - I'm a McGrory who dropped the 'G' two generations ago. Ultimately it'll be how the names were recorded on their individual attestation papers: James and Paddy didn't join at the same time.

    Many thanks to Owen and Sapper for the info and recommended reading:I'll look into the Bremen campaign in more detail. Becklingen is 60 miles ESE of Bremen: does this mean that this is likely to be the closest military cemetary? Having said that, its location looks like it could have been in enemy-occupied area (depending on the situation) at that time.

    Paul
     
  12. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Paul. although I was back in England at that time, I was still in touch with me comrades, I can tell you that the movement of troops was so swift and spreading in all directions ..That at times it was difficuklt to find where your own unit was. If you moved as a separate platoon, it not be unusual to find that your "lot" had moved and advanced.
    The RUR will have a Regimental history.
    Sapper
     
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Paul,
    This info from the CWGC will tell you why the men are it that Cemetery.
    The site of Becklingen War Cemetery was chosen for the position on a hillside overlooking Luneburg Heath, where Field-Marshall Montgomery accepted the German surrender from Admiral Doenitz on 4 May 1945. Burials were brought into the cemetery from isolated sites in the countryside, small German cemeteries and prisoner of war camps cemeteries, including the Fallingbostel cemetery, within a radius of about 80 kilometres.


    PS. Glad to help.Have you tried to get their Service Records from the MOD yet?
     
  14. lancesergeant

    lancesergeant Senior Member

    Owen, is this the historic disclosures part. If not it could be another avenue to try. Costs £25

    Historic Disclosures
    Mailpoint 400
    Kentigern House
    65 Brown Street
    Glasgow
    G2 8EX

    If it is I've just duplicated someone elses post!
     
  15. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  16. lancesergeant

    lancesergeant Senior Member

    Thanks for that Owen, I didn't want to stand in anyone's light credit where credit's due.. Regards.
     
  17. raf

    raf Senior Member

    Hi all

    my grandad passed away in 1995 and as i child i use to ask him so many questions about the war that most of the answers ive forgot.

    His name was Frank Weston and at 16 joined the British army around 1943. He was sent to the lake district for training in preperation for D,Day

    i was told that he was only of a few english men to then be attached to the irish regiment.

    he then went to dover castle and although he wasnt involved in the d,day landings he went to France then Arnhem were there is no mention of this regiment then onto Berlin after the war he was posted to palestine.

    i would be very pleased if any one has any information on Frank Weston the Irish ulsters or the battles they were involved in

    many thanks



    i have now found my Grandads paybook and his army number is 14746480
    he signed up at carlisle 18-4-44

    his paybook doesnt say much to be honest apart from territorial nothing about France or Germany although he has the star most entries seem to be when he was in palestine

    from what i recall he was in the lakes then portsmouth castle then onto dover,calais,arnham,berlin and palestine.

    ive also just bought the rifles are there a very good book

    i hope you could give me more information with the army number cheers
     
  18. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    From "Assault Division" page 268 Looks like they are all buried in the same row.

    A disaster dulled the Ulster Rifles' triumph of the previous day, when, setting off in a carrier towards Huchting, Major Bird, Lieutenant Tony Hancock and a section, drove over a magnetic sea-mine concealed under the road. There were no survivors.


    <TABLE class=datatable cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="97%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR id=tr_name><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Name:</TH><TD id=td_name>BIRD, ALAN CURTIS</TD></TR><TR id=tr_initials><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Initials:</TH><TD id=td_initials>A C</TD></TR><TR id=tr_nationality><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Nationality:</TH><TD id=td_nationality>United Kingdom</TD></TR><TR id=tr_rank><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Rank:</TH><TD id=td_rank>Major</TD></TR><TR id=tr_regiment><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Regiment/Service:</TH><TD id=td_regiment>Royal Ulster Rifles</TD></TR><!-- <tr> <td vAlign="top" align="left" width="30%">Force:</td> <td id="td_force"></td> </tr>--><TR id=tr_age><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Age:</TH><TD id=td_age>35</TD></TR><TR id=tr_death><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Date of Death:</TH><TD id=td_death>26/04/1945</TD></TR><TR id=tr_service><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Service No:</TH><TD id=td_service>105617</TD></TR><TR id=tr_awards><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Awards:</TH><TD id=td_awards>MC</TD></TR><TR id=tr_information><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Additional information:</TH><TD id=td_information>Son of Sidney Arthur and Norah Agnes Bird.</TD></TR><TR id=tr_type><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Casualty Type:</TH><TD id=td_type>Commonwealth War Dead</TD></TR><TR id=tr_grave><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Grave/Memorial Reference:</TH><TD id=td_grave>8. G. 11.</TD></TR><TR id=tr_cemetery><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Cemetery:</TH><TD id=td_cemetery>BECKLINGEN WAR CEMETERY</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    <TABLE class=datatable cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="97%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR id=tr_name><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Name:</TH><TD id=td_name>HANCOCK, ANTHONY STRANGMAN</TD></TR><TR id=tr_initials><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Initials:</TH><TD id=td_initials>A S</TD></TR><TR id=tr_nationality><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Nationality:</TH><TD id=td_nationality>United Kingdom</TD></TR><TR id=tr_rank><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Rank:</TH><TD id=td_rank>Lieutenant</TD></TR><TR id=tr_regiment><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Regiment/Service:</TH><TD id=td_regiment>The Buffs (Royal East Kent Regiment)</TD></TR><TR id=tr_unittext><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Unit Text:</TH><TD id=td_unittext>9th Bn.</TD></TR><TR id=tr_regiment2><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Secondary Regiment:</TH><TD id=td_regiment2>Royal Ulster Rifles</TD></TR><TR id=tr_unittext2><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Secondary Unit Text:</TH><TD id=td_unittext2>attd.</TD></TR><!-- <tr> <td vAlign="top" align="left" width="30%">Force:</td> <td id="td_force"></td> </tr>--><TR id=tr_age><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Age:</TH><TD id=td_age>22</TD></TR><TR id=tr_death><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Date of Death:</TH><TD id=td_death>26/04/1945</TD></TR><TR id=tr_service><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Service No:</TH><TD id=td_service>249763</TD></TR><TR id=tr_information><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Additional information:</TH><TD id=td_information>Son of Capt. Dugald Strangman Hancock and Vivien Fearne Hancock.</TD></TR><TR id=tr_type><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Casualty Type:</TH><TD id=td_type>Commonwealth War Dead</TD></TR><TR id=tr_grave><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Grave/Memorial Reference:</TH><TD id=td_grave>8. G. 4.</TD></TR><TR id=tr_cemetery><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Cemetery:</TH><TD id=td_cemetery>BECKLINGEN WAR CEMETERY</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     
  19. Mostonian

    Mostonian Member

    My Nana's first husband was in the Ulster Rifles attached to the airborne. He was also an Englishman. He died just before the date you're after taking part (I believe) in Operation Varsity. He's buried in the Reichswald Forest War Cemetery.
    RIP Tommy Stubbs.
     
  20. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    My Nana's first husband was in the Ulster Rifles attached to the airborne. He was also an Englishman. He died just before the date you're after taking part (I believe) in Operation Varsity. He's buried in the Reichswald Forest War Cemetery.
    RIP Tommy Stubbs.
    <TABLE class=datatable cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="97%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR id=tr_name><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Name:</TH><TD id=td_name>STUBBS, THOMAS</TD></TR><TR id=tr_initials><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Initials:</TH><TD id=td_initials>T</TD></TR><TR id=tr_nationality><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Nationality:</TH><TD id=td_nationality>United Kingdom</TD></TR><TR id=tr_rank><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Rank:</TH><TD id=td_rank>Rifleman</TD></TR><TR id=tr_regiment><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Regiment/Service:</TH><TD id=td_regiment>Royal Ulster Rifles</TD></TR><TR id=tr_unittext><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Unit Text:</TH><TD id=td_unittext>1st (Airborne) Bn.</TD></TR><!-- <tr> <td vAlign="top" align="left" width="30%">Force:</td> <td id="td_force"></td> </tr>--><TR id=tr_age><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Age:</TH><TD id=td_age>30</TD></TR><TR id=tr_death><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Date of Death:</TH><TD id=td_death>24/03/1945</TD></TR><TR id=tr_service><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Service No:</TH><TD id=td_service>7342471</TD></TR><TR id=tr_type><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Casualty Type:</TH><TD id=td_type>Commonwealth War Dead</TD></TR><TR id=tr_grave><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Grave/Memorial Reference:</TH><TD id=td_grave>40. C. 4.</TD></TR><TR id=tr_cemetery><TH vAlign=top align=right width="30%">Cemetery:</TH><TD id=td_cemetery>REICHSWALD FOREST WAR CEMETERY</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     

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