Rudolph GARDNER, POW, Captured Tobruk - Death March

Hi All
My uncle Rudolph Gardner was captured at Tobruk and sent to Italy and then went on the long march to Germany .
He never talked about the war at all and I would like to find out more .
Also looking for info on Bill Alexander and ? Talmage
Any help will be most helpfull - thanks

 

Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

It might help members to help you if you post details of your uncle’s unit and army service number as most military record databases in the public domain will throw up numerous R Gardner’s - they rarely give a forename. Over 20,000 men were captured at Tobruk in June 1942 and I’m sure the casualty lists will list more than one R Gardner. The National Archives search engine gives me 100+ hits for a simple R Gardner search. You need a unit or army number to identify the correct person.

You ought to apply to Swiss Red Cross in May for details of his POW records via this link -

Requests for information about people held during Spanish Civil War or Second World War: Quarterly limit reached

It’s a free service. An online application form will pop up at the given opening time/date. You need to complete it promptly as the enquiry window will close after about 90 minutes or so when the application limit is reached. You will get a reply by E Mail after about 4 months.

You also need to apply to MOD/U.K. National Archives for his army service record via this link -

Get a copy of military records of service

Apply to MOD initially and if they have already sent his file to National Archives they will signpost you there. It is a lengthy process and it can take more than a year to get a copy file from National Archives. You will need to provide a copy death certificate.

Good Luck

Steve

PS

For the same reasons members will need more information about your other 2 subjects or it will literally be like looking for a needle in a haystack. There are 5 servicemen on the National Archives service record database listed with the surname Talmage and many many more Alexander’s.

 

Simon,

Steve gives you sound advice.

There is considerable expertise here on WW2, one specialist subject is Italian POWs, so we can help.

A bit of context for you. The Allied garrison in Tobruk (a port in the Italian colony in North Africa was fought over twice) and the Afrika Korps (A German formation fighting alongside the Italians) was led by General Rommel. The Allied garrison surrendered after a short battle 17-21/6/1042; it was the second largest Allied surrender after Singapore. The largest single contingent were South Africans.

Under an agreement between Germany and Italy all prisoners (known as Prisoners of War) were transferred to Italian custody and mainly shipped back to Italy. Italy decided to exit the war in September 1943, with an armistice signed 3/9/1943 (becoming public a few days later). At many POW camps the Italian guards disappeared and were soon replaced by Germans, who promptly removed by train the POWs to camps across occupied Europe - many were in Poland. A small number of POWs did escape - a topic covered here in several threads.

I have never heard of a 'Long March' in Italy.

There were a number of POW marches from camps in Poland and Germany, heading westwards as the Soviet Army advanced and these became known as the 'Long March'. There were a few marches eastwards from the advancing Western Allies. See the maps on: Movements of POW in Germany 1944-1945

Yes, some marches were brutal and many died - including from Allied bombing - hence the phrase "death march".

 

David is quite right. There is no record of any 'Long March' from Italy to Germany or anywhere else for that matter.

After the Italian Armistice (08/ 09/ 1943) the occupying German troops sent all prisoners of war they could lay their hands on - both those still in the camps and those who had escaped and were roaming the countryside - to Germany or German occupied countries in cattle trucks. In the third week of July groups of POWs were also sent from Italy to Germany as workers - from camps PG 53 (Macerata) PG 82 (Laterina) and PG 73 (Carpi).

Regards,

Vitellino

Edited:

Simon,
Was your uncle South African? If so, I have found his prisoner of war record in The National Archives London on the series WO 416 -German Prisoner of War Records.
I have also found Talma(d)ge.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C17827806

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16874474

 

OP signed in and likely saw all above helpful responses to his queries 08.28am Monday 21st April…..

 

Every so often it happens, unfortunately, but we do help a lot of grateful people so that is some consolation

Vitellino
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