Runnymede Memorial - Known Graves

Discussion in 'War Cemeteries & War Memorial Research' started by Marks, Dec 14, 2010.

  1. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Hi Marks,

    All of mine are up to date with same cemetery listings.

    Cheers

    Geoff
     
  2. Belville

    Belville Senior Member

    Is it possible that the body was not recovered and that she is remembered on the headstone in Ireland.

    It's fairly certain it is her grave. It is in a family burial ground, and on the wall is a memorial to a relation (J. R. F. Lecky), who was killed in WW I and is buried in Iraq. I would have thought there would be a similar memorial to Molly if she was buried elsewhere.

    Belville
     
  3. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Hello Belville

    It might be worth you contacting CWGC and see if they have further info
     
  4. Belville

    Belville Senior Member

    There is an article about her in the 1993/4 volume of the journal of the local history society. I'll have a look at that.

    Belville
     
  5. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    Looking through the Autralian national archives I came across this gem :

    Mosquito DZ 597 TK Forsyth and LC James, MRES states buried at Wittstock/Dosse cemetery in graves 19 and 20 - a small cemetery on google earth - but they are unable to access he graves due to the Soviets refusing permission. if however this becomes possible in the future then the graves will be marked in the meantime, the airmen will be commemorated on the memorial being constructed at Runnymede.

    Well it's now 2012 and Wittstock/Dosse is very accessible now !!
     
  6. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Looking through the Australian national archives I came across this gem :

    Mosquito DZ 597 TK Forsyth and LC James, MRES states buried at Wittstock/Dosse cemetery in graves 19 and 20 - a small cemetery on google earth - but they are unable to access he graves due to the Soviets refusing permission. if however this becomes possible in the future then the graves will be marked in the meantime, the airmen will be commemorated on the memorial being constructed at Runnymede.

    Well it's now 2012 and Wittstock/Dosse is very accessible now !!

    This is the full loss detail. They are both still listed at Runnymede so I will ask the CWGC if they intend to mark with a headstone at this cemetery or exhume and rebury these two airmen at one of the main German cemeteries and see what their response is!

    Failing a credible response, a secondary request will be made to the Hon Warren Snowdon MP, Minister for Veterans' Affairs in Australia. He is the minister who represented at William Lacy Smiths' burial at Ranville and would be involved with the burial of William James Smith at Cassel next April.

    RAAF PERSONNEL SERVING ON ATTACHMENT IN ROYAL AIR FORCE
    SQUADRONS AND SUPPORT UNITS IN WORLD WAR 2 AND MISSING WITH
    NO KNOWN GRAVE.

    409587 Flight Sergeant FORSYTH, Thomas Kevin

    Source:

    NAA : A705, 166/14/109
    Aircraft Type: Mosquito
    Serial number: DZ 597
    Radio call sign:
    Unit: 139 Sqn RAF

    Summary:

    Mosquito DZ 597 of 139 (Jamaica) Sqn RAF, took off from RAF Station, Marham, at
    1839 hours on 20 October 1943 along with 8 other squadron aircraft, to attack Berlin.
    Nothing was heard from DZ 597 after take off and it did not return to base.

    Crew:

    RAAF 409587 Flt Sgt Forsyth, T K (Pilot)
    RAF 1268838 Sgt James, L G (Navigator)

    Following post war enquiries and investigations, German documents revealed that the
    aircraft crashed at Zaatzke, 4 miles north west of Wettstock, and the crew were buried in
    the Wettstock (Doose) Cemetery, 55 miles north west of Berlin, and in the Russian zone
    of occupied Germany. As it was not possible to visit the grave and identify the remains,
    their names are recorded on the missing memorial at Runnymede, UK.
    In Memory of
    Flight Sergeant
    Thomas Kevin Forsyth
    409587, Royal Australian Air Force
    who died on 20 October 1943 Age 25
    Son of David Craig Forsyth and Margaret Anne Forsyth, of East Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
    Remembered with Honour
    Runnymede Memorial

    In Memory of
    Sergeant
    Leonard Charles James
    1268838, 139 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    who died on 20 October 1943 Age 22
    Son of Leonard Charles and Amelia Florence James, of Kilburn, Middlesex.
    Remembered with Honour
    Runnymede Memorial
     
  7. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    Thanks Spidge, who knows, the graves may be lost, the cemetery records lost, however with the recent debate on RAF commands forum about lost Commonwealth aircrew due to Soviet attitudes, here is one very clear case of that.

    At the very least I think these two guys are wrongly commemorated, they should not be on Runnymede, at the least they should have special memorials in Berling 39-45 cem reading " buried at the time in Wittstock/Dosse cemetery but who's grave is now lost, thier glory shall not be blotted out"
     
  8. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Thanks Spidge, who knows, the graves may be lost, the cemetery records lost, however with the recent debate on RAF commands forum about lost Commonwealth aircrew due to Soviet attitudes, here is one very clear case of that.

    At the very least I think these two guys are wrongly commemorated, they should not be on Runnymede, at the least they should have special memorials in Berling 39-45 cem reading " buried at the time in Wittstock/Dosse cemetery but who's grave is now lost, thier glory shall not be blotted out"

    Thanks Jon,

    I had sent the email detailing the loss details in my post so we will await their response which usually takes a month or so.

    Hopefully the response will be positive.

    Cheers

    Geoff
     
  9. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    Found another interesting one, Lanc ND475 18/19/4/44, crashed at Chapelbridge U.K., with Aussie pilot and 2nd dickie, Chorley has "wreckage spread across the fenlands"

    NA Australia has far more details which states Aircraft dived vertically into the ground at high speed.

    How little chance do these two Aussies and their 5 crewmates have of being recovered compared to the recent Spit pilots in France ?? none at all realistically with the British attitude
     
  10. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    :poppy::poppy::poppy::poppy: :poppy::poppy::poppy::poppy:

    RAAF PERSONNEL SERVING ON ATTACHMENT IN ROYAL AIR FORCE
    SQUADRONS AND SUPPORT UNITS IN WORLD WAR 2 AND MISSING WITH
    NO KNOWN GRAVE.

    420493 Pilot Officer OBERG, Albert Edward
    425129 Pilot Officer CULLIFORD, Ronald Firth

    Source:
    NAA: A705, 166/8/430
    Aircraft Type: Lancaster
    Serial number: ND 475
    Radio call sign: DX -
    Unit: 57 Sqn RAF

    Summary:

    Lancaster ND 475 of 57 Sqn RAF from RAF Station East Kirby, Lincolnshire, had taken
    part in a raid on an enemy target in France, and was on its return flight when it crashed 2
    miles south east of Whittlesey, Cambridgeshire, at 0133 hours on 19 April, 1944.
    The aircraft was returning with the main bomber force, when it dived vertically into the
    ground at high speed and was completely destroyed by the impact and fire.
    It is not know whether the crash was caused by enemy action as it was completely
    destroyed.

    Crew:

    RAAF 420493 P/O Oberg, A E, Captain (Pilot)
    RAAF 425129 P/O Culliford, R F (2nd Pilot)
    RAF Sgt Kinnes, W D
    RAF P/O Crossley, E F
    RAF P/O Pizzey, H
    RAF Sgt Richards, J S
    RAF P/O Adams, H H
    RAF Sgt Willis, J R

    The remains of Sgt Willis were recovered and interred, with the remaining crew recorded
    as having no known grave.

    In Memory of
    Pilot Officer
    Albert Edward Oberg
    420493, Royal Australian Air Force
    who died on 19 April 1944 Age 32
    Son of Edwin Thomas Oberg and Helena Oberg; husband of Minna Louisa May Oberg, of Punchbowl, New
    South Wales, Australia. Solicitor.
    Remembered with Honour
    Runnymede Memorial

    In Memory of
    Pilot Officer
    Ronald Firth Culliford
    425129, Royal Australian Air Force
    who died on 19 April 1944 Age 22
    Son of Norman John Smith Culliford, and of Ruth Minnia Culliford, of Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia.
    Remembered with Honour
    Runnymede Memorial

    In Memory of
    Sergeant
    William Duncan Kinnes
    1522824, 57 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    who died on 19 April 1944

    Remembered with Honour
    Runnymede Memorial

    In Memory of
    Pilot Officer
    Edmund Forbes Crossley
    174670, 57 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    who died on 19 April 1944 Age 34
    Son of Edmund and Georgina Forbes Crossley; husband of Doris Edith Crossley, of Pembury, Kent.
    Remembered with Honour
    Runnymede Memorial

    In Memory of
    Pilot Officer
    Herbert Rex Pizzey
    174690, 57 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    who died on 19 April 1944 Age 23
    Son of Herbert Clarence and Alice Blanche Pizzey, of Goodmayes, Essex.
    Remembered with Honour
    Runnymede Memorial

    In Memory of
    Sergeant
    Joseph Stewart Richards
    1394671, 57 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    who died on 19 April 1944 Age 20
    Son of John and Emma Richards, of Ilford, Essex.
    Remembered with Honour
    Runnymede Memorial

    In Memory of
    Pilot Officer
    Henry Harris Adams
    174599, 57 Sqdn., Royal Air Force
    who died on 19 April 1944 Age 40
    Son of Alfred James Adams and Elizabeth Adams; husband of Morwenna Mary Adams, of Exmouth,
    Devon.
    Remembered with Honour
    Runnymede Memorial

    In Memory of
    Sergeant
    John Frederick Willis
    2208994, 57 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
    who died on 19 April 1944 Age 19
    Son of Victor William and Ellen Willis, of Bury.
    Remembered with Honour
    Bury Cemetery, Redvales
     
  11. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Just read this fascinating thread for the first time.
    Brilliant research, well done all.
     
  12. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    A family lied to and 10,000 guilders too expensive to recover 4 australian airmen Pages 6 onwards

    lancaster JA902 in the australian archives look up W D Toohey's digitalise file
     
  13. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    This is the main part You were referring to.

    Toohey_WD Digitised File.jpg
     
  14. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    This is another "high profile" loss (Fl/Sgt John Donald Davidson RAAF) as this RAAF member was part of the crew of Squadron leader James Catanach, (our youngest Squadron Leader) and one of the five Australians murdered after the "Great Escape".

    455 SQUADRON RAAF WORLD WAR 2 FATALITIES
    Date of Crash : 5 September 1942

    Source:

    AWM 64 1/244
    AWM 237 (63) (64)
    AWM 54 779/3/129 Parts 1, 8 and 3.
    NAA : A705. 166/9/455.
    Aircraft Type: Hampden
    Serial number: AT 109
    Radio call sign: UB – C
    Unit: 455 Sqn RAAF

    Summary:

    Hampden AT109 took off from RAF Sumburg at 2040 hours on the night of 4/5th September 1942 for Vaenja, Northern Russia, via Afrikanda. The aircraft was one of 16 aircraft of the Squadron to take off for Vaenja. AT 109 failed to arrive at its destination.

    Crew:

    RAAF 400364 Sqn Ldr Catanach, J DFC MID Captain (Pilot)
    RAAF 400316 FO Anderson, G R (Navigator BombAimer)
    RAAF 404632 Flt Sgt C W Cameron, (Wireless Operator Air Gunner)
    RAAF 404462 Sgt J R Hayes, (2nd Wireless Operator Air Gunner)
    RAAF 5372 Flt Sgt J D Davidson (Fitter 11A)

    All the crew became POW’s.

    In a 1945 report the then Flt Lt Anderson stated : “The aircraft when proceeding to Russia was holed in the petrol tanks by ground fire. The Captain force landed without damage to aircraft or crew. Approx position of the crash Kirkness (Northern Norway).

    Sqn Ldr Catanach was one of 50 Officers massacred at Gorlitz in March/April 1944 after his escape from a tunnel at the North Compound, Sagan. I was in the East Compound at the time. Flt Sgt Davidson died as a result of the rigours of a march in early 1945. I have been told this since my return from Germany. Released by the Russians on 21/4/45.”
    Flt Lt Anderson escaped from prison but was recaptured at Holzensalzer (Poland) after walking 26 miles over 3 days. He survived the war as did Sgt Hayes and Flt Sgt Cameron.
    Sqn Ldr Catanach died on 29/03/1944 and is buried in the Poznan Old Garrison Cemetery, Poland.

    Flt Sgt Davidson died on 17/03/1945. He died in Stalag POW Camp Bad Sulza after marching from Silesia. It was reported that he was buried by a Chaplain the Rev McIntyre at Bad Sulza Cemetery on 20/3/45. It was recorded in 1950 that since it was not possible to visit Bad Sulza which was in the Russian Zone of Occupation, his name had been commemorated on the Memorial to the Missing, Runnymede, Surrey, UK.

    I will wait on the reply from CWGC on the previous query to see where we go with this one.

    Cheers

    Geoff
     
  15. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    Two things that may interest you Spidge,

    F/S Gordon Washbourne RAAF 115 sqn 7-8-44 listed baldly as commemorated on Runnymede in Chorley was actually shot whilst trying to escape

    Not far from our recent Aussie Spit pilot near Cassel is F/S Houseman 20/21-7-44 still in his lanc per MRES

    if you want me to mention more interesting such things I come across let me know

    Jon
     
  16. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Two things that may interest you Spidge,

    F/S Gordon Washbourne RAAF 115 sqn 7-8-44 listed baldly as commemorated on Runnymede in Chorley was actually shot whilst trying to escape

    Not far from our recent Aussie Spit pilot near Cassel is F/S Houseman 20/21-7-44 still in his lanc per MRES

    if you want me to mention more interesting such things I come across let me know

    Jon

    Thanks John.

    All info accepted.

    The CWGC has replied re Wettstock duo so we wait and see.

    [FONT=&quot]Thank you for your email of 4th March 2012.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]I am writing to inform you that your enquiry will be further investigated by our Records Department. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]I will[/FONT][FONT=&quot], [/FONT][FONT=&quot]of course contact you again with the result of their findings[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Yours sincerely[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Argy Francis (Mrs)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Enquiries Administrator[/FONT]



    RAAF PERSONNEL SERVING ON ATTACHMENT IN ROYAL AIR FORCE
    SQUADRONS AND SUPPORT UNITS IN WORLD WAR 2 AND MISSING WITH
    NO KNOWN GRAVE.
    427175 Flight Sergeant WASHBOURNE, Gordon
    Source:
    NAA : A705, 166/43/707
    Aircraft Type: Lancaster
    Serial number: HK 548
    Radio call sign: KO – W
    Unit: 115 Sqn RAF
    Summary:
    Lancaster HK 548 of 115 Sqn RAF took off from RAF Station Witchford on the night of
    7/8th June 1944 to carry out an attack against Massy Paliseau, Chevreusse, France.
    Nothing was heard from the aircraft after take off and it did not return to base.
    Crew :
    RAAF 42207 PO Law E A Captain (Pilot)
    RAAF 427175 Flt Sgt Washbourne, G (Navigator Bomb Aimer)
    RAAF 427540 Flt Sgt Nurse, J R
    RAF Sgt Parkinson
    RAF Sgt Newton
    RAF Sgt Russell
    RAF Sgt Murphy
    PO Law, Flt Sgt Nurse (RAAF) and Sgts Parkinson, Russell and Murphy (RAF) became
    POW’s In a statement Flt Sgt Nurse said “ the aircraft was attacked by two fighters when
    commencing the run into the target. The port engine caught fire but was extinguished.
    The starboard inner engine was also hit and a fire started in the starboard wing. Efforts to
    extinguish were ineffective. The abandon order was given. I baled out at 6000 feet. I later
    made contact with PO Law and he informed me that Sgt Parkinson Sgt Russell and Flt
    Sgt Washbourne had baled out.” PO Law later stated that all the crew had baled out.
    German documents recorded that Flt Sgt Washbourne had been shot as he tried to escape
    capture on 8 June 1944. No trace of his grave has been found and his name is
    commemorated on the Runnymede Missing Memorial UK. Sgt Newton (RAF) is buried
    in the Massy Communal Cemetery, 10 miles south of Paris.

    RAAF PERSONNEL SERVING ON ATTACHMENT IN ROYAL AIR FORCE
    SQUADRONS AND SUPPORT UNITS IN WORLD WAR 2 AND MISSING WITH
    NO KNOWN GRAVE.
    424634 Flight Sergeant HOUSEMAN, John William
    Source:
    NAA: A705, 166/18/414
    Aircraft Type: Lancaster
    Serial number: LM 633
    Radio call sign: UM – T2
    Unit: 626 Sqn RAF
    Summary:
    Lancaster LM 633 of 626 Sqn RAF took off from RAF Station Wickenby, Lincolnshire,
    on the night of 20/21st July 1944, to attack Coutrai, Belgium. Nothing was heard from the
    aircraft after take off and it did not return to base.
    Crew:
    RAAF 414332 FO Bowen, J Captain (Pilot)
    RAAF 418252 Flt Sgt Clarke, R C (Navigator)
    RAAF 423234 Flt Sgt Ferguson, R D (Air Bomber)
    RAAF 422810 Flt Sgt Purnell, W A (Wireless Operator Air)
    RAF Sgt Fyfe, J S (Flight Engineer)
    RAAF 428899 Flt Sgt Beattie, G M (Mid Upper Gunner)
    RAAF 424634 Flt Sgt Houseman, J W (Rear Gunner)
    Both FO Bowen (RAAF) and Flt Sgt Purnell (RAAF) were captured and became POW’s,
    whilst the others with the exception of Flt Sgt Houseman evaded capture and returned
    safely to UK. In later statements from the survivors it was reported that LM 633 was
    attacked by a JU 88 causing fires in the fuselage and starboard engines. The abandon
    aircraft order was given, and the aircraft crashed at Zietenacy ou Zoetenasie, approx
    8kms north west of Diksmuide on 21 July 1944.
    FO Bowen stated that the Germans had assumed that Flt Sgt Beattie and Flt Sgt
    Houseman were buried under the wreckage and both were listed as dead in German
    documents. Beattie however evaded capture and was safe. Members of the crew also
    thought that with the inter communication useless that Flt Sgt Houseman may have baled
    out in the confusion.
    In 1949 it was recorded that with the aircraft buried deep in the ground, it was impossible
    to locate any other remains, and Flt Sgt Houseman the only missing member of the crew
    was listed as having no known grave.

    Cheers

    Geoff
     
  17. The Cooler King

    The Cooler King Elite Member

    Peter Clare likes this.
  18. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    Thank you for posting this.

    I was at the unveiling of the memorial in October 1953 and also at the re dedication 50 years later in 2003 where I was introduced to the Queen. I also visit Runnymede about three times each year.

    Regards

    Peter
     
    The Cooler King likes this.
  19. The Cooler King

    The Cooler King Elite Member

    Very impressive Peter :)
     
  20. Marks

    Marks Senior Member

    Hi,

    Time for an update.

    2011POIX DU NORD COMMUNAL CEM, FRANCE
    F/O D.H ALLEN DFC PANEL 5 18.5.1940 85 SQN

    2011 ALDINGHAM (ST CUTHBERT) CHURCHYARD, CUMBRIA
    P/O J.P LEES PANEL 289 20.6.1940 26 SQN

    2012 RHEINBERG CWGC
    F/O W.I ADAMSON DFC PANEL 204 31.3.1944 101 SQN

    2013 BRANCASTER (ST MARY) CHURCHYARD
    ACW2 P.M DUFFIELD WAAF PANEL 291 2.3.1942

    2013 SOUTH EALING CEM
    ACW1 D.J.V WALKER WAAF PANEL 291 28.5.1942

    2014 RHEINBERG CWGC
    F/S J.J CAREY RCAF PANEL 103 29.8.1942 103 SQN

    2014-15 GUIDEL COMMUNAL CEM, FRANCE
    F/O E.R LYON PANEL 207 27.7.1944 234 SQN

    2015 QUORN BAPTIST CHURCHYARD, LEIC
    SGT D.M PAYNE PANEL 18 9.9.1940 149 SQN

    2015 RANCOURT MILITARYCEM, FRANCE
    P/O C LIGHT PANEL 9 21.5.1940 18 SQN
    SGT G. HAWKINS DFM PANEL 15 21.5.1940 18 SQN
    SGT A.E CRAIG PANEL 13 21.5.1940 18 SQN

    2015 LEEUWARRD NORTHERN GENERAL CEM, HOLLAND
    P/O M.S LUND RNZAF PANEL 63 24.7.1941 103 SQN
    SGT A.E OWEN PANEL 49 24.7.1941 103 SQN
    SGT J.J COX PANEL 41 24.7.1941 103 SQN
    SGT R.P WILLIAMS PANEL 55 24.7.1941 103 SQN
    SGT A.J LE POIDEVIN PANEL 47 24.7.1941 103 SQN
    SGT R.G WALKER PANEL 54 24.7.1941 103 SQN

    2015 DURNBACH CWGC
    F/O A.V BONE PANEL 123 17.4.1943 49 SQN
    SGT R.N.P FOSTER PANEL 149 17.4.1943 49 SQN
    SGT C.W YELLAND PANEL 170 17.4.1943 49 SQN
    SGT R.J ROONEY PANEL 163 17.4.1943 49 SQN
    SGT R.C WHITE PANEL 169 17.4.1943 49 SQN
    SGT R. COPE PANEL 146 17.4.1943 49 SQN
    P/O B.W WATT RCAF PANEL 178 49 SQN

    2015 DURNBACH CWGC
    P/O G. SMITH PANEL 133 26.11.1943 97 SQN

    2016 HEERDE (WAPENVELDE) GENERAL CEM, HOLLAND
    SGT G.S WALTERS PANEL 168 3.4.1943 158 SQN
    SGT P.H ELDRIDGE PANEL 148 3.4.1943 158 SQN
    SGT W.D HAWKINS PANEL 152 3.4.1943 158 SQN
    SGT J.C JONES PANEL 155 3.4.1943 158 SQN

    2016 WERKENDAM PROTESTANT CEM, HOLLAND
    SGT J.E KEOGH PANEL 232 22.6.1944 101 SQN

    Mark
     

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