Sailing Vessel Penang 1940

I hesitate to tread within the realms of MN experts but it would seem that the ship is not the problem for Winifred Lloyd not being on the Tower Hill Memorial but more her status. CWGC says, in this particular case, that for inclusion you had to be "Commonwealth registered merchant sailor". I presume this is the qualification held by the Messboy allowing his inclusion on the memorial. Was Winifred Lloyd a Commonwealth registered sailor?

Tim

 

Roy,
I am familiar with the 'Winter War' and allied attempts to help Finland, but she was not an ally.
Nowt to do with the lady sail maker.

 

I agree, the CWGC must have information on MELHUISH, Ordinary Seaman, MURRAY FRANCIS to satisfy the criteria for MN commemoration although I can find no evidence of service in the Fourth Register of Seamen. Similarly, I find no evidence of service for Winifred Eileen Lloyd. Although I stress that does not mean there is no evidence.The evidence required would be a Dis. A number or an entry in the Articles of Agreement of a British or Commonwealth ship.
That said, I find these rules unbelievable and anyone who has seen previous comments by me on this subject will be aware of how I feel on this. Both those citizens of the Commonwealth were aboard the same ship - one was commemorated the other not.

Regards
Hugh

 

Murray Francis Melhuish (1923-1941) - Find A...
Ordinary Seaman Murray Francis Melhuish (he may have been serving as M. Melhuisen) was lost at sea aboard the SV Penang - a deep water square rigger Sailing Vessel
He is remembered on the family gravestone in Payneham Cemetery, South Australia and is officially commemorated on the Tower Hill Memorial in London
SV Penang left Port Victoria, South Australia for Queenstown, Ireland early in June 1940. Berlin radio announced that the Penang had been torpedoed and sank off the Irish coast by the German submarine U-140 with the loss of eighteen lives on 8 December 1940. She was listed as ´untraced´ at Lloyds in March 1941 and her official loss date is the 1st of July 1941


Ordinary Seaman Murray Francis Melhuish...


TD

 

As Travers (post 10)

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995
Name: Winifred Eileen Lloyd
Death Date: 6 Feb 1941
Death Place: Sussex, England
Probate Date: 1 Aug 1941
Probate Registry: Lewes


Seems as though she has been forgotten and slipped through the cracks, she is noted as having died "on or since 6th Feb 1941 at sea" - about 6 months before she actually died so even the probate system didnt know her proper date of death

TD

 

David,

I take your point.

It would seem that the Captain of the U-boat thought she was an enemy ship, whether he believed her to be the Penang or the Lawhill (both were Erikson ships at that time). What I don't know was whether the Finns identified themselves as Neutral at that time in 1940?

Regarding Winifred Lloyd's status, I can't imagine she could have signed the Penang's articles without some sort of documentation - perhaps she used her passport? I agree with Hugh and the others -she very much deserves recognition.

 

She was a Brit/Commonwealth so should be commemorated. She died on a vessel that was torpedoed by the enemy.
CWGC suggest they will review for civilian death.At least this should be a given.
Either way she should be commemorated she was killed during WW2 by the enemy.
I like many here deal with commemorations regularly and have to jump through hoops to get a result.

 

Dear Mr McGee

My email of 20/11/20 below refers.

I am writing to confirm that Winifred Lloyd has now been formerly accepted for commemoration as a Civilian War Dead casualty. She will therefore be added to our records and should appear on our website within the next few days.

Her details will also be added to the roll of honour held in Westminster Abbey in due course.

Thank you again for bringing this casualty to our attention.

Kind regards,

Lisa Simmonds
CWGC Commemorations
Commonwealth War Graves Commission
2 Marlow Road, Maidenhead, Berkshire, SL6 7DX, United Kingdom
Tel: +44 1628 507200 | Website: The Commonwealth War Graves Commission | CWGC