Seine Crossing, Vernon. 1944 & 2007.

Discussion in 'WW2 Battlefields Today' started by Owen, Sep 5, 2007.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Dave. (PS. get a bigger memory card you bloody skinflint! You can get 2Gb cards for less than £15 these days!!!!!:p)

    Just got my 2Gb card from Play.com for £9.49, that gives me 1552 photos on my Kodak C703.

    Thanks for the subtle hint.
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Our situation on the Seine was at Les Andelys, and rafted night and day at a small place -PORTE-JOIE. Before setting off on the long road that led to Brussels.
    Sapper
    I've been looking at Assault Division again Brian, it says this about Les Andelys.

    On approaching the Seine from Louviers, the first sight of the long islands of populars , the familiar picture of the chalk cliffs, the romance of our Richard the Lion Heart's great Chateau Gaillard standing on guard above Les Andelys, and , not least, the nearness to Paris, must have lightened the hearts that were already lighter than they had been for a very long time. And so the short sojourn by the Seine was carefree and happy. The Div Club, now an institution , moved into an hotel in Les Andelys that had been used by the Germans. There were several dances given, much to the delight of the demoiselles. In Les Andelys the entente was exceedingly cordial. For two or three days all units sent a few lucky troops into Paris for the day, but this excellent scheme had to be abandoned when Paris was placed out of bounds to all British troops.
     
  3. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Hi Owen I am afraid that all that is news to me. Dancing? Clubs? Girls? Must have been in a different army to me. We saw nothing of that.

    We were practising for assault river crossings ready for the low countries
    Sapper
     
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I expect it was for officers of Div HQ
    I've looked up Porte Joie, it's a couple of bends downstream from Les Andelys,
     

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  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I'm so annoyed with myself.
    At the RAF Museum, Hendon today I picked up After The Battle 119.
    "Break-Out Across The Seine"
    There is a great Then & Now of a bailey bridge next to the destroyed road bridge at Les Andelys.
    Also a great photo on page 19 of British troops entering the same town.
    Another one I missed out on.
    Haven't got a scanner or decent digital-camera otherwised I'd post it here.
     
  6. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    Wow again! Looking all of Owen's trips and got lil' envy how u there can freely trip across Europe :) .. sigh... :sad_angel:
     
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    mark abbott likes this.
  8. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    As mentioned in post #25.
    Les Andelys from ATB issue 119.
    Which shows the crossing point then & now.
    If I remember correctly the original bridge was blown up in 1940.
    [​IMG]

    A photo I took from the Chateau, showing former location of large building with a X.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I have walked up this street but didn't take a then & now as I didn't know about this until I returned.
    Instead I have a general view over the town looking north.
    You can see the cliffs in the ATB photos.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Some footage of the bridges being built at Vernon .
    Watching it the footage is in reverse sequence, the last bit is the ferry in the smoke whilst the battle was still on-going, the first bit is the completed bridge.

    British Pathe - BUILDING OF PONTOON BRIDGE
     
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Nice shots mate :)
     
  12. LesD

    LesD Junior Member

    I've just been looking at the Google street view of Vernon. Looks like they've made a mess of the WWII memorial sites near the bridge! August 2009 and they were fine but July 2013 and they've been constructing what looks like a roadway down to the cruise boats. I don't suppose we've any lurkers here who have been there since then?
     
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    70 years on.

    http://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/research/war-diaries/detail/19806

    25th August 1944
    5th Wilts war diary
    Bn moved fwd to VERNON in preparation to cross R SEINE, a distance of 40 miles, and concentrated in FORET DE BIZY 4270. 1845hrs. Concentration of arty started. 1900hrs. "A" Coy started to cross R SEINE in storm-boats. First storm boat wrecked and cas sustained. 2nd storm boat grounded on sandbank but men got ashore. Coy continued to cross in remaining storm boats but these became wrecked or stranded. Eventually approx 60% of "A" Coy completed crossing of river and one Pl secured its objective astride the Rd VERNONET)GIVERNY on the RIGHT flank of Bn objective. 2230hrs. Four DUKWS were then launched and three were grounded. "C" Coy was ferried across in remaining DUKWS which continued to operate and eventually ferried the remainder of the Bn across. "C" Coy was Commanded by Lt. Holly, with all Pls commanded by Sgts. The Coy secured their objective on the ridge about 453742 in spite of a stiff climb in the dark over un-reconnoitred country and against some enemy rifle and MG fire. Their objective was given to widen the Bn bridgehead and dominate the Rd VERNONET-GASNY. Meanwhile "A" Coy was counter attacked three times and reduced to strength of approx 1 Pl. Coy HQ was over-run and OC "A" Coy, Major Milne missing. W Q Roberts Lt Col

    4th Wilts war diary
    http://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/research/war-diaries/detail/19059
    Bn arrives at VERNON on R. SEINE. Coys occupy posns overlooking opposite bank. 6 en posts observed at 448738 without difficulty. En seemed to be unaware of our presence. 4 SOM LI and 5 WILTS commenced crossing R. SEINE at 1900 hrs sp by arty HE and smoke. Owing to inaccurate inf from French civilians regarding sandbanks and depth of water, 4 SOM LI only landed 2 Coys on small island off mainland and first three boats of 5 WILTS become fast on sandbank resulting in hy cas.


    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORTH-WEST EUROPE 1944-45. © IWM (BU 71)IWM Non Commercial Licence
    Men of the 4th Wiltshire Regiment climb into an assault boat to cross the Seine at Vernon, 25 August 1944.
    caption is wrong, they men of 5th Wilts


    Infantry about to cross the River Seine at Vernon, 25 August 1944.
    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORTH-WEST EUROPE 1944-45. © IWM (BU 70)IWM Non Commercial Licence



    Troops carrying a boat in preparation for crossing the River Seine at Vernon, 25 August 1944.
    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORTH-WEST EUROPE 1944-45. © IWM (BU 61)IWM Non Commercial Licence



    Infantry embarking in a boat to cross the River Seine at Vernon, 25 August 1944.
    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORTH-WEST EUROPE 1944-45. © IWM (BU 72)IWM Non Commercial Licence
     
    Capt.Sensible likes this.
  14. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Is anyone aware of any photos of the SRY crossing the Seine?

    For example there's a great shot of a very "cheerfully commanded" Sherman crossing the Seine on the 28th August here:

    Sherman tanks crossing a Bailey bridge over the Seine at Vernon, 28 August 1944.
    http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205206279

    But I don't have the knowledge to say "whose tank" this might be.

    I think that they arrived at the Seine at Vernon at 20.15 hrs though this was Sunday August 27th so it was probably still light.

    It's not clear to me when exactly they crossed but otherwise once over they might have been fighting in a wooded area 2km on, to increase the bridgehead on Monday the 28th.

    These SRY guys always seem to be crossing rivers and fighting in woods.

    Not sure if some of them weren't missing the freedom of the wide open deserts ;) but there are a lot of "bad" ways to fight a war....

    This one of Monty's crossing is particularly nice: http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/7978-seine-crossing-vernon-1944-2007/?p=142477

    Did he "travel" with a particular unit or brigade? i.e. are the vehicles around him regular units or those specifically in the train of his HQ?

    All the best,

    Rm.
     
  15. toki2

    toki2 Junior Member

    114 Co Rasc Tipper diary entry
    18th August 1944 D platoon Bridging Convoy Vassy.
    My father was a driver with this platoon and am wondering if the convoy was carrying materials for bridges at Vernon. I am presuming that the materials would have been offloaded at the Mulberry harbour and conveyed all the way to the Seine.
     
  16. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    I have a contemporary report on the Vernon Bridging operation, some film clips and an article I wrote myself. I will look as time allows. The garden keeps me busy at the moment.

    All bridging material came from the Normandy beaches but not always Mulberry.

    More later.

    Mike
     
  17. toki2

    toki2 Junior Member

    I had read somewhere that there was a huge convoy of bridging material heading towards Vernon but I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it.
     
  18. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    Yes. The convoy had to travel across American lines of communication so it needed careful planning and timing. It had the use of certain roads at certain times. There is a 1947 official publication about it. I have a copy somewhere.

    Mike
     
  19. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Ken Ford's ''Assault Crossing'' is a good read on this subject.
     
  20. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    I see an unidentified tipper platoon as part of a large bridging convoy moving up to the Seine on 23 August. This convoy consisted of 210 vehicles including:
    Two Field Companies RE
    51 vehicles carrying material for a FBE bridge
    28 vehicles carrying material for a Bailey Bridge.
    16 vehicles moving dozers
    24 vehicles from a Field Park Company

    and 30 vehicles, one platoon, listed as tippers and stores. Elsewhere it says that the tippers were carrying track material for the bridge approaches. This would be steel mesh trackway. Once unloaded the tippers were for clearing debris from the roads and streets of Vernon and moving earth etc from the bridge approaches.

    This convoy had assembled west of Argentan and was moved to a staging area near Breteuil on the night of 24/25. It moved forward from 1320 on 25th.

    All bridging material and stores had been landed at Mulberry or over the beaches and dumped around Bayeaux until needed.

    Mike
     

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