Sergeant John Joseph Zammit Air Gunner RAF Volunteer Reserves

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by Della, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. Della

    Della Member

    Hi guys,

    I'm totally overwhelmed by your supportive and helpful replies. I will pursue all the avenues that you have made me aware of. Obviously I'm new to this site and indeed to posting threads so please forgive me if I'm getting it a bit wrong. I wanted to add photos of Johnnie's watch (the finding of which prompted my quest) but can only do this to my original post. I think they are there now, hopefully.

    Perhaps someone can let me know if they aren't?

    Thank you again

    Della
     
  2. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Della,

    Your pictures uploaded OK.

    Good luck with your search. I traced "long lost" Canadian relatives through the site last year.

    Steve Y
     
  3. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Hi Kevin,

    Just looking at the dates and ages of Emmanuel/Emanuel there seems to be a three year gap in the age. 1911 to 1939 is 28 years added to his declared 33 years of age in the 1911 census would see him being 60/61.

    My nephew spends a lot of time in Malta and has traced records of his/my wife's family (paternal) however not sure if he has delved into the maternal side (Zammit) and may be able to turn something up. The names are interesting bringing "Berini" into the equation and as you say his wife or married daughter.

    Everything I have searched for comes back with reference to Joseph John not John Joseph.

    The name "Bottiche" I am not aware of (middle or maiden name?) noted on the CWGC records must be a clue somewhere.

    Edit: Placed Emmanuel's details with two M's and Berini as spouse maiden name and Ancestry came up with this but I cannot access it. I did not mention the name Bottiche so this seems it could be them.

    Gibraltar, Select Marriages, 1879-1918 Birth, Marriage & Death Name: Emmanuel Zammit Spouse: Celestina Bottiche Birth: date Marriage: date - location

    Added to this in the 1911 census shows Emmanuel as being 30 may tidy up the three year gap and have hime born in 1881 not 1878. All hypothetical of course.

    There was only one Joseph Zammit born (Portsmouth) in the UK between 1910 and 1925 however the mothers name was BEALE.

    The only John was a John B born also born (Portsmouth) in 1924 with Mothers name BALLE.

    I did not select Portsmouth - These were the only John or Joseph that occurred.

    So it would seem we may need someone with "World" ancestry to assist.


    Cheers

    Geoff
     
  4. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Hi, Geoff, I haven't forgotten all the help you gave me for the family in Melbourne.
    They were blown away when presented with the findings, so a belated "Thanks" and sorry we weren't able to meet up....
    Back to the chase...

    I traced Bottiche to Gibraltar as there was a reference to a marriage in Mary of the Crowned, which I believe is in Gibraltar.
    As you say, we need someone with access to Canadian and other records!

    I'll keep plugging away hoping for something more to turn up - it usually does when you least expect it!
     
  5. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    No problem Kevin.

    I did notice the Bottiche Marriage and worked on that for the possible age of John J.

    What is puzzling is even if we do not have "World", he should show an incoming passenger arrival. Yes/No?

    Anyway "World" is out of my affordability though I could do with it trying to trace the last resting places of the 48 Dambusters who survived the war. Having said that, it is quite difficult to do for the ones who were buried in the UK. My aim is to achieve a photo of their graves however many were cremated and the "ashes taken" which then creates a privacy issue.

    Cheers

    Geoff
     
  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    The difference in first names can create problems when searching, he obviously like being called Johnnie from post 1, perhaps there were others in the family who preferred Joseph or Joe and he took the John part (or his family called him John/Johnnie) to differentiate between brothers. I know my father was names William John but was always called Jack.

    It would be useful to try and trace Helen (?Zammit?) from Canada, but I still think the main source of useful info to move this on will be from his service record.

    Great job so far guys, we just need a few more pieces of the jigsaw :)

    TD
     
  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Just to add another spanner in the works:

    Mrs Joseph Zammit b 1914 (so around the same year as John) arrived in the UK from USA (but could have traveled from Canada to catch the boat?) in 1951, with her son William B aged 12 (b 1939) and daughter Gilda C (could be for Celestina) aged 10 (b 1941). There is no mention on the passenger list of a husband, as you can also see by how she was 'officially' named on the list.

    These Zammit's dammit ( :D ) seem to travel all over the place.

    TD
     
  8. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    The was an Emmanuel Zammit with the same birth year (1881) who died in Manhattan New York in 1947 however not having "World" could not open it!

    Cheers

    Geoff
     
  9. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    There's Zammits also in the New York area but can't access any better either.

    Is there still a IX(B ) Squadron Association - or would the current 9 Sqdn Tornado fly boys be able to help trace this ex Squadron member for us?
    They probably have contacts in Canadian and US military that could progress this rapidly....?

    From TD's findings, Mrs Zammit and children could have returned to the UK - but perhaps then onwards to Malta or Gibraltar?
     
  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  11. Marcel Dubois

    Marcel Dubois Member

    Dear Della,
    I did an in-dept research about the downing of Lancaster LM430 in my native village on March 22, 1944. A commemoration in presence of 9 (B) Squadron RAF and a remembrance plate were installed on March 22, 1997 at the crash site. I can confirm that John Joseph Zammit was born in Gibraltar and moved with his parents to the USA. Before joining the RAF he lived in Brooklyn, New York.
    Hope I gave you valuable clue.
    Kind regards.
     
    CL1, spidge and Owen like this.
  12. Marcel Dubois

    Marcel Dubois Member

     
  13. Marcel Dubois

    Marcel Dubois Member

    Hi everyone,
    John Joseph Zammit was NOT killed on March 23, 1944 but on March 22,1944. Lancaster LM430 was downed by Wolfgang Schnaufer at 23.15 hrs. It was his 48th kill at night. You can see one of his Me-110 rudders at the Imperial War Museum London. He ended the war with a total score of 121 confirmed night victories, mostly heavies. Imagine how many people he killed!
    Kind regards.
     
    CL1 likes this.
  14. Marcel Dubois

    Marcel Dubois Member

    Dear Della,
    The photograph you posted has been taken by Fox Photo at RAF Bardney in the morning of January 6, 1944. Although Press-shy the RAF invited the Press to boost morale after the severe losses during the Berlin bombing campaign. In the night of 5 to 6 the target was Stettin and it was John Zammit's eleventh trip. On the picture you'll see from left to right: Jimmy Hearn (navigator), the Australian F/Lt Newbound (wireless operator), scarcely visible behind him is John Zammit (upper turret) talking with F/Sgt Hayler (rear gunner), Frederick Burkitt (engineer) watching the Canadian Peter Warywoda (bomb aimer) giving a light to Albert Manning the pilot. The aircraft was Lancaster WS-J "Johnny Walker" (W4964). The hull section is on display at the Newark Museum nowadays.
    The legacy of Fox Photo belongs now to Hulton Deutsch London, so be careful in distributing copies. The fees are not a laughing matter.
    Merry XMas,
    Marcel
     
    RCG likes this.
  15. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    I seem to recall he was American and his photo is in one of the LANC AT WAR books describing him as such ?
     
  16. Marcel Dubois

    Marcel Dubois Member

    Hello,
    The photo Della posted appears on page 69, in the book 'Lancaster - The Story Of A Famous Bomber' by Bruce Robertson. Other photographs of the crew are in 'The Lancaster at War' by Mike Garbett and Brian Goulding. The first on page 47 'The Locker Room'. The pilot Albert Manning bowing while taking his chest paracute, navigator James Hearn is standing behind him. The second on page 50 'Thanks for the lift': far right is Albert Manning with John Zammit (bald head).
     
  17. Marcel Dubois

    Marcel Dubois Member

    I ment chest parachute. Always that fast typing.
     
  18. Marcel Dubois

    Marcel Dubois Member

    You got it absolutely right. In that same book I mentioned earlier (Lancaster - The Story Of A Famous Bomber by Bruce Robertson) on page 70 is John Zammit's photo also taken by Fox News. Caption however is wrong. Must be January 6 and not first.
    Marcel
     
  19. Marcel Dubois

    Marcel Dubois Member

    Hello Della,

    Will you please contact me. I found a relative of John Zammit.

    With kind regards,

    Marcel Dubois from Belgium
     
  20. K_Legge

    K_Legge New Member


    Hello, I am the granddaughter of George Caines - the only survivor of the crash. I have just stumbled upon this thread and I am replying just in case there is anyone who still follows it... George wrote a memoir of his war experience that he printed and gave to family in 2000. He passed away in 2011.
     

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