Service Records application - MOD response timescale

Right first off - hold your fire - I neither support or reject the current Publication Policy of MOD disclosures - so letting loose on here at either me or the system will be a waste of ammo.

I was interested to see how the Publication Scheme that is causing angst in Army Service Records was also being applied to RAF Service Records and how to correctly satisfy procedure to get the maximum information permitted.

RAF Records differ from Army as being a single, two sided largish index sheet. RAF Form 543A

The most recent record sent to me for a serviceman that died in service (1944) as a non NoK who applied for General Research purposes was redacted (blacked out) in the following areas

Front Page
Religion
Civil Occupation
Wife Maiden Name
Marriage date
Marriage place
Next of Kin
All of Description (Height, Chest Colour of Hair/Eyes/Complexion and Marks/scars)
Two parts of Miscellaneous Lists ( guessing but looks like medical board results)
Time Forfeited
A couple of other areas but as the Form543A is free form clerk index style sheet then there are no headings to identify specific

Rear Page
Two small undefined area at top margin (usually where casualty file reference is annotated)
All of musterings (date and trade eg u/t WOp. FEII etc)
All of Date/Rank/Character/Trade/Proficiency

Un-redacted on the rear page is
All of Unit Postings and date of movement
Promotions/reclassifications/reversions
Special Qualifications (Exams, courses engines etc) - but this may because none were listed.

So if compared to the Publication Scheme for Service Records of Deceased Personnel I got exactly what the scheme permitted.
Request records of deceased service personnel

"In recognition of the duty of care owed to the family of the deceased subject, for a period of 25 years following the date of death of the service person, the MOD will (if held) disclose:

• surname
• forename
• rank
• service number
• regiment/corps
• place of birth
• age
• date of birth
• date of death where this occurred in service
• the date an individual joined the service
• the date of leaving
• good conduct medals (for example, Long Service and Good Conduct Medal (LS&GCM)), any orders of chivalry and gallantry medals (decorations of valour) awarded, some of which may have been announced in the London Gazette.

After the 25 year period, MOD will also disclose the additional information (if held) below:

• the units in which he/she served
• the dates of this service and the locations of those units
• the ranks in which the service was carried out and details of campaign medals awarded."

With the exception of Musterings the redactions were in line with Policy to remove reference to:
3rd Parties
Personal information on religion, physical, performance and medical records.

Comparing content and scope - the Army B103 contains similar info to RAF 543A Mustering so the redacted record sent to me would be in line with B103 being withheld or heavily redacted.

Now it gets interesting.

As I was looking at one of the links posted on this thread to try to understand the reason for Mustering redaction:

Reference: FS50771408
Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA)
Decision notice
Date: 18 January 2019

I received a telephone call from Disclosures at Cranwell to say they were preparing a record I had requested and noticed that I had not requested "review of Mustering with view to publication" and did I want them to do this.

After a most helpful discussion, my understanding (I stress my - not policy) falls into line with the ICO Commissioner comments on the decision above.

The Publication Scheme is set out to as a blanket first response to provide a list of items that can be readily actioned by Disclosures Staff to efficiently reduce time spent satisfying the SAR without proof of death (in this case over 116 years old will be considered action point in absence of death or formal assumption of death certificates) or within 25 years of.

There are sections that would normally be redacted but, on request, could be individually assessed it line with GPDR/DPA/Publication Scheme to see if publication could be permitted but this was not a core task actioned under all circumstances.

Army B103 / RAF Mustering falls into this category - standard assumption is that publication not permitted but in response to specific request, publication may be permitted.

Advice from RAF Disclosures was if deceased over 25 years and either death in service or Death/Presumption of Death Certificate provided add request for "Mustering Publication" in Online Addition Information Box or add as text on postal applications to trigger review when record being prepared.

So take away for Army is specifically ask for B103 on application.

Ross

 

Hi Ross,

Thanks very much for sharing your RAF expertise and recent experience with RAF staff.

Hopefully members will pursue Army applications in line with your final very helpful sentence and get a similarly positive response from the clerks at APC in Glasgow.

Steve

 

Thanks Ross, that certainly makes sense of what happened with my application.

 

I really am liking the processes and delivery method of the online application scheme.

At the bottom of the email I had with the record containing the redacted Musterings and Trade section was the following
"If you are not satisfied with this response or you wish to complain about any aspect of the handling of your request, then you should contact me in the first instance. If informal resolution is not possible and you are still dissatisfied then you may apply for an independent internal review by contacting the MOD Information Rights Compliance Team, ...(postal address and email supplied - Ross)"

I sent an email this morning asking for an informal review of the Musterings and Trade section and had a answer by 2pm saying that an informal review had taken place and in this instance it had been decided that the information could be released - a password protected email was attached with the section in clear.

So like GeorgyB I found the informal review system simple to use and quick to resolve without resorting to sabre rattling on either side.

Edit
Final ordered record c/w unredacted Musterings, Trade, Rank, date and character. delivered by email at close of play today.

So applied online 8th Nov - estimated time to deliver by Disclosures on application 6 weeks - all three records of service actually delivered in a fraction over 3 weeks.

Ross

 

Got some great news yesterday via email: my great uncle's RN service records are on the way! Given the Covid delays with the post, I'm expecting them to arrive in about 3-4 weeks, although our re-opening of borders could see that timeframe shorten just slightly. A delayed Christmas present, but well worth the wait.

 

Some wonderful mail today: my great uncle's service records finally arrived - 4 weeks after being sent airmail to Australia. Admittedly, it was extremely light on, but it was good to see what his contribution to the war effort was.

 

Great stuff

 

I'm still waiting on 2x from July 2020, but sent one off in Oct 2021 and got it back just before crimbo. Not sure whether they're just working through the newest first or not....

 

Hi,

Thanks for sharing.

Apologies if you’ve already done so and I’ve missed it but I’d start a new thread in the service record sub forum and request an explanation of the RN papers provided. Forum member Hugh MacLean will likely be able to assist.

From other topics he has commented on I appreciate the significant information that can be gleaned from the victualling records provided.

Good Luck

Steve

 

No need to apologise, Steve.
I have started a thread asking for further details and yes, Hugh has chimed in with his (always) insightful information.

 

Received the wife's fathers records this morning - applied for in Aug 2020. As a unexpected bonus we got his Soldiers Service and Pay Book and his Officers Record of Service, Army Book 439

 

Received my Grandad’s records on Tuesday this week nearly 2 years to the day of sending off for them,keep the faith .need to try and work it out now . But found out he was 31 when enlisted in 1940 and was a miner pre enlistment don’t think my dad knew ,that shame he passed away before it turned up , but it here now worth the wait

 

Interesting, Pay Book, Record of Service and Army Book 439. Didn't know these were available.

 

The record of service form is the equivalent of the B103 for other ranks.

if you have a subscription to Findmypast have a look at Scots Guards service files to see the difference in contents between Officer and other rank files.

Steve

 

I'm assuming the Record of Service is the AB439 - as shown here Officers Record of Service Book (Army Book 439) | WW2Talk

 

We may find the answer if the OP posts a copy - I have the B199 as the 2 page officers record of service form.

Example here for Major The Earl of Lindsey, Scots Guards - courtesy of FMP.


Steve

 

So basically we are paying for nothing from the MOD becouse every thing that is blocked out I would like to know about my ancestor or his family. I really don't know how they can justify the charge for the amount of little detail they allow us to have. Did anyone find anything else like letters from home ects ? Would these be in there

 

No - not everything is redacted and those that are you can request review.

The record of service is clearly defined as to what it did contain, what was to be destroyed and when.

Letters from home etc have no place in a service record - only a casualty file.

You are paying for the retrieval and handling charge - as gene requests are outwith the permitted internal charging (own or NOK are permitted internal and FOC) - not for the record.

Why should you drain the MoD funds to satisfy your individual desire for information that cannot be found elsewhere in public record.

Ross

 

I had a letter yesterday from MOD in Glasgow enclosing my original cheque (now obsolete), original application form dated 21/08/2020, and a return envelope. I noted the application now has an allocated reference number. If I want to proceed I had to send a new cheque and re-date the application form. I've done this and returned by Special Delivery - having got this far I can't risk it going missing in the post! After 18 months wait it feels like I am inching closer...

I'll update again when I eventually receive the papers.
Shona

 

It seems like there has been a change of policy. Were some people not sending a new cheque when they received the records?
(Yes, I did send a new cheque)