SIGABA machine lost in Colmar pocket 1944?

Discussion in 'Top Secret' started by Kiwiguy, Jun 22, 2010.

  1. Kiwiguy

    Kiwiguy Member

    Please can anyone help me?

    Some years ago I read in a book about cyphers that the US equivalent of an Enigma machine called the SIGABA was left in a 5 ton truck parked at the front line. US forces withdrew and when they returned two weeks later the truck and machine were dumped into a river.

    Was this a deliberate act so that Nazi commanders could negotiate with Washington in Sunrise talks?

    Can anybody confirm the essential story please?
     
  2. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Please can anyone help me?

    Some years ago I read in a book about cyphers that the US equivalent of an Enigma machine called the SIGABA was left in a 5 ton truck parked at the front line. US forces withdrew and when they returned two weeks later the truck and machine were dumped into a river.

    Was this a deliberate act so that Nazi commanders could negotiate with Washington in Sunrise talks?

    Can anybody confirm the essential story please?

    Yet another conspiracy theory?

    You can read the official report here:

    http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_files/cryptologic_spectrum/Colmar_Incident.pdf
     
  3. Kiwiguy

    Kiwiguy Member

    Yet another conspiracy theory?

    No I simply asked a reasonable question.
     
  4. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    No I simply asked a reasonable question.
    And I gave a reasonable reply. Can you dig out your original source?
     
  5. Kiwiguy

    Kiwiguy Member

    I read about it during the late 90s in a library book which dealt with decoding the Japanese Purple code and their type 97 machine. It described the American cypher breaking effort in WW2 and the history of American chypher analysis since WW1. It gave a chapter or so about the Sigaba machine as a contrast. If I recall correctly the Americans did not share any of their SIGABA machines or cyphers with the British and their machine was analagous to the Enigma machine.

    Sorry I can't recall much other detail beyond that. I apologise but "conspiracy theory" is often a term used as a put down. I am merely curious if the machine was intentionally allowed to fall into German hands as part of Operation Sunrise?

    Much that actually happened in Operation Sunrise probably makes cypher machines look tame.
     
  6. Grantheilman

    Grantheilman Junior Member

    Attached is what is likely the magazine article--not a book--about the missing Sigaba. It's a bit fluffy, but the facts are straight, and the fluff is also. I'm the Lieutenant Grant Heilman interviewed, and Colonel Dave Erskine was my boss who sent me down to Colmar from Sixth Army Group Headquarters, then in Vittel.

    In my report which went up to SHAEF I said I did not believe the Sigaba was stolen either by the Germans or by the French, but by some unknown, likely a French soldier who needed transportation. The deGaulle French army would clearly have liked to have Sigabas, and we denied it to them, but I doubted very strongly they were well enough organized in Colmar to carry out the theft.

    The one questionable element to the safe discovery was that the French Intelligence officers who made up half my team would never comment on how they found the site of the missing safes, other than to say it was the result of a barroom conversation between one of their undercover operatives and someone he met in the bar. They had immediately sent their operative back to his base in Strasbourg and said they couldn't get him back for an interview by me. My questions were met with a shrug, but the safes were where they said they should be.
     

    Attached Files:

    dbf, wowtank and Slipdigit like this.
  7. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Hi Grant and welcome to WW2Talk.
    Fascinating (and educational) story. Thanks for providing the background and your essential part in it.

    Mike
     
  8. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    Welcome Mr. Heilman. Thanks for posting the article, it was good to read.
     
  9. wowtank

    wowtank Very Senior Member

    Until this was necroed i did not no SIGABA existed. So thanks for posting:)
     
  10. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Until this was necroed i did not no SIGABA existed. So thanks for posting:)

    Have a play with one, this may be the nearest you get to a real machine (probably won't work on 64 bit windows). I think only two exist in museums, the original rotors have been destroyed for security.

    Incidentally it was designed by Frank Rowlett, a member of Friedman's team. It does not mention this in the docs posted above.

    ECM MK IICipher Machine
     

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