SS report on conduct of British POWs in Germany

Absolutely marvellous pictures Steve!

I don't suppose you have more of the Hughes graffiti showing his first name/initials? Be interesting to do a liberation questionnaire look up on him and some of the others.

 

This from the IS9 historical report:

LANCASHIRE PENNY FUND
An impudent scheme, by which money and maps, hidden in Christmas crackers and sent by an imaginary "Lancashire Penny Fund" direct to the German Camp Commandants, was successful in a large number of camps. A letter with the crackers requested the Camp Commandant in each case to pass them to the S.B.O. or Camp Leader to help brighten their Christmas Party. 50% of these got through.

 

it just gets better

 

Might even be worth submitting that photo to the Regiments website.
They have a Gallery of submitted photos.

Worcestershire Regiment (29th/36th of Foot)
Will send it off Owen, thanks for the address.

 

Hi PsyWar,

Glad you liked them, they certainly made our visit group laugh. I have posted a few more below but not as humerous or defiant as the first batch. My sister took quite a few, will see what she has got.

Have sent the Hughes photo off to the Worcs Regt museum as Owen suggested, but they may not use it their gallery due to the language!

Will ask Jacksun about Mr Hughes as he has a very comprehensive data base of POWs - we might get to know his rank and battalion.

Regards

Steve







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As regards spirit in captivity there was no greater performer than Sgt Major Charles Coward who skived his time, deceiving the Germans while in charge of working parties.Read his account along time ago but I do remember they had a bully German guard who it was known, was pinching R.C parcels.The man died suddenly and it appears,he was poisoned but the act was not detected by the German authorities.

Interestingly,who was the KOYLI captured on 26 April 1940 in Norway?....my aunt's brother in law was with the KOYLIs in Norway and always maintained that when they were evacuated, they had not lost a rifle.Perhaps far fetched.

Steve's photographic evidence reflects the spirit of the British POWs. Some and that includes commissioned ranks, accepted their lot,others were continually thinking about escape and doing as little work for the Jerries as they could get away with.

I would add that some POWs forced to work in the mines in poor conditions and were treated badly by civilian foreman....on rations inadequate for heavy physical work

 

Absolutely marvellous pictures Steve!

I don't suppose you have more of the Hughes graffiti showing his first name/initials? Be interesting to do a liberation questionnaire look up on him and some of the others.

According to the POW list it's Private E J Hughes 885921 of the Worcesters. POW NO 50394

John

 

In May last year I had the honour of visiting Stalag XXA in Thorun, Poland. Unlike many hutted POW camps which have long gone, because XXA was an old Prussian fort, it is still there.

Fort 13, where my father did his time, is well preserved because it is owned by the Polish military. After our walk around the fort, our guide showed us the "Cooler Cell" where Brit POWs were confined for various wrong doings (in the eyes of the Germans). My father did 3 weeks there after his escape in '42.

It had been bricked up for some time and then "found"; it was a 73 year old time capsule of British Army graffiti - quite amazing. Attached below are just some of the hundreds of inscriptions by the inmates - and all showing their defiance to their captors. Please excuse the bad language but it does add to the authenticity. They obviously could not have cared less what punishment their defiant attitude would bring.

The last image is of the bricked up doorway which had only recently been discovered.

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Steve

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=97964&d=1358713733


First Name: E. J.
Last Name: Hughes
Rank: Private
Regt / Unit: Worcestershire Regiment
Soldier Number: 885921
Pow: Yes
POW Number: 50394
Camp: Stalag XX-A
Camp Location: Torun, Poland

 

Thanks John and Wayne. I'll do a look up for E J Hughes when I next get a chance.
More great photos Steve. It's pleasing to see the graffiti has mostly survived this long.

Are the owners of the site intending to preserve it do you know? Be such a shame if the structure was demolished or whitewashed over.

 

Thanks John and Wayne. I'll do a look up for E J Hughes when I next get a chance.
More great photos Steve. It's pleasing to see the graffiti has mostly survived this long.

Are the owners of the site intending to preserve it do you know? Be such a shame if the structure was demolished or whitewashed over.
Our guides in Poland, a very nice young couple called Hania and Pawel, were very concerned about preserving the graffiti for posterity. Aparently that part of the Fort has been acquired by civilian owners who are considering flattening it for re-development. They asked us to lobby when we got home to the UK to prevent it being destroyed.

I did quite a bit of research about the cell and it transpires the NWM has a full photo collection of every inscription. However trying to find an organisation to lobby was difficult as it is privately owned in a foreign country. I discussed it with the Nation Ex POW Association and their chairman, Phil Chinnery, is going to try to discuss the situation with the owners.

Hania and Pawel's website is quite interesting: WARTIME GUIDES

Steve

 

I enjoyed the post as well and was very proud of the British behavior but was wondering how they got away with it.

Weren't their lives in peril at all times? I can't imagine Russian or Polish POWs lodging complaints against their guards, but this might be one of the many areas of WWII in which I have a lot to learn.

Dave,
The real talent in all this would be to judge where the line was in terms of what the Germans would tolerate. I'm sure it varied,given the circumstances, as to what behaviour would put you in the cooler and what would get you shot.
In terms of mental stimulation and maintaining personal morale, baiting the Germans was really the only weapon they had to fight with and to maintain their pride. There is also the old saying about idle hands doing the devils work. These men would have had countless hours to concoct various schemes to get under the skin of the guards.
I am struck by the contrast with the conduct of German prisoners, as described in the recent thread on Camp Wainwright.

 

Dave,
The real talent in all this would be to judge where the line was in terms of what the Germans would tolerate. I'm sure it varied,given the circumstances, as to what behaviour would put you in the cooler and what would get you shot.

one of those graffitti pics says that the writer
was serving (obviously the start of) 15 years
hard labour for knocking out a guard!

 

Just noticed that Airey Neave was a brief prisoner at Thorn until he escaped. In his escape and evasion report he briefly mentions the appalling conditions at Thorn and the morale of the POWs there.

Airey Neave would later escape from Colditz and make the first British home run from the castle. He then headed up IS9 (the executive branch of MI9). Post-war was a Member of Parliament until being murdered by a car bomb.

Here's the first part of his Escape report to MI9:MOST SECRET

M.I.9/S/P.G.(G)676


The information contained in this report is to be treated as
MOST SECRET



INTERIM ACCOUNT OF ESCAPE OF
Lt. NEAVE, A.M.S. 1 SEARCHLIGHT REGT., R.A.


Captured: 26 May 40.
Escaped: 6 Jan. 42.
Arrived: Switzerland, 9 Jan 42.

1. CAPTURE
I was Troop Commander in 2 Bty., 1 Searchlight Regt. R.A. We retired from ARRAS and took up position 2 kms. south of CALAIS on 19 May 40. On 24 May I was wounded while defending a forward position and was taken to a French hospital, which was shelled and bombed during the next two days. On 26 May I contacted the last line of defence of the British forces, but it was impossible to evactuate the wounded. I was captured on a stretcher on the shore at about 1730 hrs. on 26 May.
Being wounded, I did not reach Germany till August and from then I was in three camps altogether.

Aug. 40 – Mar. 41 OFLAB IXA. SPANGENBERG

(1) OFLAG IXA, SPANGENBERG, nr. KASSEL, Hesse. Aug. 40 – Mar. 41. This was a well guarded Schloss, considerably over-crowded by 250 P/W. Medical stores were scanty, and health was bad as a result. No Red Cross parcels had as yet arrived and food was poor. There were several cases of brutality.

Mar. – May 41. STALAG XXA. THORN.

(2) STALAG XXA, THORN, Poland. Mar.-May 41.
This was the reprisal camp for Fort KINGSTON, Canada. The following conditions obtained:- Underground rooms with no daylight. (Windows were boarded up if necessary);
Guards with rubber truncheons;
Three appels a day;
Revolting sanitary conditions;
Officers were locked in their rooms at 2000 hrs. till 0700 hrs.

The effect on morale was negligible, and the Germans seemed rather ashamed of the whole affair. After a month most of the restrictions were withdrawn. The food was the same as elsewhere.

FIRST ESCAPE.
On 16 April I attempted to escape to Russia, but was captured near WARSAW and handed over to the Gestapo. During my escape I observed:- (i) All crucifixes and many religious monuments have been deliberately destroyed in occupied Poland.
(ii) In LESLAU I saw a young member of the Hitler-Jugend beat an old Pole about the head and stamp on his hat in the street amid roars of applause.
(iii) I was told that the Ghetto in WARSAW is in a bombed quarter of the city and that leaving the boundaries of it was punishable by death.
(iv) I was in the Strafgefängnis in the town of PLOCK. It is run by the Gestapo and political prisoners of both sexes were mixed with thieves and other criminals. I saw people being kicked and heard sounds of beating.
(v) Members of the Gestapo admitted to me that hundreds of Germans were being murdered by the Poles.
(vi) The morale of the Poles is remarkable and they are always ready to help escaped prisoners.

(3) OFLAG IVC, COLDITZ, Sachsen. May 41 – Jan. 42.
This is a camp for “Ausbrecher”, or escapers. There were also Jews and political prisoners there. The total number was over 550 and it is very strongly guarded by a complete battalion. General morale was very high and everything was done by escapes, demonstrations, etc., to keep guards occupied. The result was a series of minor incidents and reprisals. There is overcrowding and little opportunity for exercise. Medical attention is poor, but parcels come in well. Censorship of letters and books is very inefficient.
ACCOUNT OF ESCAPE
6 Jan. 42 ESCAPE
On 6 January 1942 I made my escape with a Dutchman, both of us dressed as German officers. By a complicated scheme involving breaking through a ceiling we emerged from the guard house and passed two sentries without arousing suspicion. At 0545 hrs. we took a train from LEISNIG to LEIPZIG. There we learnt that the best train left at 2052 hrs. We therefore spent the day in the town, visiting the cinema twice. From LEIPZIG to REGENSBURG (where we changed) and then to ULM we travelled without difficulty. At 1030 hrs. on 7 January we attempted to take a ticket to ENGEN near SINGEN in the frontier district. We attracted some suspicion here and were handed over to the Reichsarbeitspolizei, to whom we presented our Dutch papers. They seemed satisfied with these, but said they were not valid for travel beyond ULM. A Policeman accompanied us to the Reichsarbeitsdienst where we were supposed to report. Fortunately, he said that, as we spoke such good German, he would wait for us below. We went upstairs and managed to make our exit through a door at the other end of the building.
As it was now impossible to travel by express to the frontier, we walked and travelled by local trains until we were 3 kms. from SINGEN about 0400 hrs. on 8 January. There we were questioned by workmen on bicycles who seemed suspicious, and we heard them say they would inform the police. We had hoped to get over the frontier during the darkness, but we were now obliged to hide up for a whole day. We hid in a small hut and slept there. Weather conditions were terrible and the temperature very low. At 1800 hrs. we left the hut carrying large spades and a couple of long white coats found in the hut. A Hitler Jugend patrol stopped us and we satisfied them that we were Westphalian workmen. They told us they were looking for two prisoners of war who were reported in the district. We entered SINGEN and from the station we walked west as far as a signpost to GOTTMADINGEN 4 km. There we travelled north and then round a large wood that fringed the GOTTMADINGEN-SINGEN road, eventually travelling south over the railway line that runs north of this road to a point where road and frontier meet for about 50 yards. There we threw away the spades and put on the white coats. An open space lay before us with woods all round. Seventy metres away we saw a sentry at a barrier and cars being stopped. This was to our left. At about 0030 hrs., walking and crawling, we crossed the road and this open space which was about 200 yards across and thus passed over the frontier. We saw no Swiss guards and no lights. After accidentally crossing back into Germany (which we discovered by observing a sentry to our left – i.e., to the East) we followed compass line to RAMSEN and were there interned at 0100 hrs.

Notes.
1) As far as our observations went, no one but the military were asked for passes in trains.
2) It would attract undesirable attention to eat chocolate in public or smoke too much.
3) Station waiting rooms may be dangerous, as I have noticed that railway police ask civilians for passes, particularly on large stations at night. Coffee and beer can be bought without difficulty.
4) Cinemas are good places to rest in.
5) It seems probable that the local civilian population in the frontier areas are instructed to question strangers who may be prisoners of war.
6) Since the black-out in Switzerland at 2200 hrs. there will be no lights visible as a guide after that hour.
7) Trains are very stringently controlled in occupied countries, especially Poland, and it was generally thought too dangerous to travel in them.
8) Advantage can be taken from the presence of two sorts of foreigners in Germany:-
(a) Volksdeutsche (German nationals) who may speak very little German and who have been repatriated from places like Bessarabia, Volkynia, and Lithuania. This is particularly useful for those escaping in Poland where large transplantations of the population have taken place.
(b) Workers from occupied countries and Italy, especially Dutch, Walloons, and Flemish. There are many of these in industrial areas of Germany adjoining Holland. All of these speak only a certain amount of German.

 

Regarding advice issued by MI9 was that escapees should never walk with a walking stick....apparently a sure sign the the person was Englisch.

As for persistent escapers,some of these were covertly murdered by the Gestapo and theirwhereabouts are a mystery to this day.....no known grave.

Remembered an escapee who found himself on a railway station identity check....quick thinking,he walked into the toilets unseen,pulled out a hanky and started to clean the light fittings.The check detail came in, looked around and walked out thinking he was a bona fide maintenance workman.

 

Dave,
The real talent in all this would be to judge where the line was in terms of what the Germans would tolerate. I'm sure it varied,given the circumstances, as to what behaviour would put you in the cooler and what would get you shot.


I have seen many copies of the paperwork detailing alleged offences and the punishments awarded attached to reports in the POW Liberation Questionnaire files (WO 344).Some make very interesting reading. I'll try and copy a couple when I come across some more

John

 

That's very sad to hear Steve. It would be great if something could be done to preserve the site but recognise how difficult it is doing anything practical to help that come about.

Although some UK publicity might make the owners have second thoughts.

Our guides in Poland, a very nice young couple called Hania and Pawel, were very concerned about preserving the graffiti for posterity. Aparently that part of the Fort has been acquired by civilian owners who are considering flattening it for re-development. They asked us to lobby when we got home to the UK to prevent it being destroyed.

I did quite a bit of research about the cell and it transpires the NWM has a full photo collection of every inscription. However trying to find an organisation to lobby was difficult as it is privately owned in a foreign country. I discussed it with the Nation Ex POW Association and their chairman, Phil Chinnery, is going to try to discuss the situation with the owners.

Hania and Pawel's website is quite interesting: WARTIME GUIDES

Steve

 

If it's plaster, it could be removed by a specialist archeologist
and form part of a museum exhibit, either in Poland or UK

 

If it's plaster, it could be removed by a specialist archeologist
and form part of a museum exhibit, either in Poland or UK
From what I can remember, and from the pictures, it seems to be a very flaky form of white wash paint. I think it would probably crumble as the layers were removed.

S

 

As this thread is about POW defiance and MI9, I thought I would combine the two and post this letter from my father, Sgt Foster, to MI9 written just after the war. It was written in response to a letter from MI9 asking him to expand on the information in his Q form.

As a result of this letter, L/Cpl Coulthard was awarded a posthumous MiD; this is, in effect, is the citation for the award.

Apologies for breaking the pages into two, but was the only way I could get each under 2mb

Steve









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