Stalingrad - Pavlov's house

Discussion in 'The Eastern Front' started by deadb_tch, Nov 6, 2009.

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  1. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    We had some discussion with Owen on a Facebook about Pavlov's house in Stalingrad and I decided to put the results that came after it to this thread.

    So what's a point?

    There is common myth of Pavlov's house (standing on 9th January Square, Stalingrad) that were defended 58 days from the middle of semptember, 1942 by 24 soviet soldiers under command of Sgt. Yakov Pavlov.
    The facts is somewhere different. The most important difference that Pavlov were in command only 3 initial days after which there arrived Lt. Afanasyev with additional men and ammo who then was in command during all hard fight days. But for some reason soviet front press made Pavlov a hero, probalby because of lack of information or for propaganda reasons. In addition Sgt. Pavlov during the days of house defence were sent to attack some of the nearest houses (called for some reason "milk house") and were badly wounded and sent to medics.
     
  2. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    The look of Pavlov's house after Stalingrad was freed:
    [​IMG]

    Pavlov's house were 1st house restored to the initial state in Stalngrad after the war is over, it was restored under the people movement that were retoring city in free time after the work.
    Here is how it looks today:
    [​IMG]
     
    Za Rodinu likes this.
  3. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    Another after war look of Pavlov's house:
    [​IMG]

    Another modern look of Pavlov's house:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    Another thing that can confuse someone is reading on Pavlov's house is this:
    [​IMG]

    This is the steam mill that were built in Stalingrad by german engineers in 1904. This house were not so far from Pavlov's house, in this house were command HQ under which command were troops defending Pavlov's house.

    This is how it looked after the war:
    [​IMG]

    The ruins of mill is now a part of Pavlov's house memorial, the modern look of ruins:
    [​IMG]

    1968 year:
    [​IMG]

    Another modern look:
    [​IMG]
     
  5. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    Near the Pavlov's house there is huge memorial complex with common grave, main building of memorial looks like this:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Love the way the house is preserved Alex.
    I guess the government propaganda machine would generally choose an 'earthy' NCO over an officer to promote to public hero-hood.

    ~A
     
  7. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

  8. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Great Thread Alex. That building looks well built to withstand all that punishment!
     
  9. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Well done Alex, great feature.
    I think Adams assumption is correct regarding the incident. I have read about the action but not of the Lt, which your post explains.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  10. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    Love the way the house is preserved Alex.
    I guess the government propaganda machine would generally choose an 'earthy' NCO over an officer to promote to public hero-hood.


    There is also another explanation of fact why the hell they (soviet front press and then soviet historics and propaganda) called it Pavlov's house. This sounds like artillery HQ that were supporting Pavlov's unit movements during initial house takeover marked it on its maps like 'Pavlov's house' for the name of commander under which command it was taken. And then when even house commander was changed to Lt. Afanasyev house was still marked everywhere as 'Pavlov's house' even when Pavlov left it for reasons of another task.

    What's most sad thing in history of Pavlov's house that noone else defended it gained medals except Pavlov which became Hero of Soviet Union. All other soldiers that were fighting there and Lt. Afanasyev too received no medals except standard 'Stalingrad Battle' medal which actually received all Stalingrad soldiers.
     
  11. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    Great Thread Alex. That building looks well built to withstand all that punishment!

    One german can't destroy what another german built. :)
     
  12. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Excellent thread Alex.
    I was wondering the other day why our Eastern Front discussions are usually about the campaign as a whole rather than the nitty gritty of small actions.
    I think you are right about why the original name of Pavlov's House stuck.
     
  13. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Great work, Alex!

    Here it is in miniature :)
    [​IMG]

    Also an interesting Stalingrad thread from elsewhere.
     
  14. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Great work, Alex!

    Here it is in miniature :)
    [​IMG]

    Also an interesting Stalingrad thread from elsewhere.
    I would recommend clicking on the "Stalingrad Thread" link that Za has posted. Fantastic pictures of a historic city. :D
     
  15. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Excellent thread Alex.
    I was wondering the other day why our Eastern Front discussions are usually about the campaign as a whole rather than the nitty gritty of small actions.

    You're absolutely right Owen. There is a tendency to focus purely on the Strategic Actions when this stuff is just as, if not more, interesting.
     
  16. watchout

    watchout private

    Great work, Alex!

    Here it is in miniature :)
    [​IMG]

    Also an interesting Stalingrad thread from elsewhere.
    thats awsome, is it true in the battle of povlovs house that they held out on the german onslaught for 53 days befor being relived by other red army units?
     
  17. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    thats awsome, is it true in the battle of povlovs house that they held out on the german onslaught for 53 days befor being relived by other red army units?

    Yes, this fact is proved one, could you believe or not.
     
  18. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    Battle-time shot from air which is showing us Pavlov's house and house of Zabolonty (which were completely destroyed after series of air and artillery(?) strikes unlike Pavlov's):
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I've just been reading differences between the Soviet myth & the actual reality of Pavlov's House in Chapter Six of ''Stalingrad: How the Red Army Triumphed'' by Michael K. Jones.

    He says the command of the house was taken over by Captain Naumov.
    He was killed in the attack on The Milk House where Pavlov was wounded.
    His men went out to bring Naumov's body back & he was buried in the cellar of the house.
    A major part of the defence of the house was thanks to the artillery fire directed by spotters in the house.
    One Potanski (who is interviewed in book) was decorated by Chuikov for his work there.
    Another myth was that the name ''Pavlov's House'' was marked on maps of the time, in fact it wasn't.
    It was given the codename 'Lighthouse' in Order 179.


    There is a lot more in that chapter I won't mention here but in case you're interested I suggest you read the book.
     

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