The 50 victims of the Great Escape

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by The Aviator, Dec 6, 2007.

  1. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I see from Imdb that he has commenced pre production of Swiss Family Robinson. Wonder what he could do with that?
    The Alabamian Family Robinson?
    Marooned on a desert island where they discover Hitler's diaries, Lord Lucan, and the Marie Celeste's crew...
     
  2. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    The Alabamian Family Robinson?
    Marooned on a desert island where they discover Hitler's diaries, Lord Lucan, and the Marie Celeste's crew...

    And that's before they even get their hut built!
     
  3. en830

    en830 Member

    Its unfortunate that history is being distorted by the film industry,creates a product which in the end is fiction.

    In the case of the film "The Great Escape" the only piece that is total fiction is the motorcycle bit with Mr McQueen.

    Admittedly situations and events that weren't directly attributable to the “real” escape, have been re-worked and included in the escape scenes to make the film much more watch-able, however with the exception of the motor cycle stunt the other escape methods, such as the stealing of an aeroplane, stowing away on the ship, walking the Pyrenees etc... Did happen at one point or another during the war.


    The other main error in the film is the execution scenes; in the "real" escape the victims were shot in small groups not en-mass.


    Gordon Jackson’s mistake by answering in English, happened to Bushell and Scheidhauer at Saarbruken. Scheidhauer, a Frenchman, was fluent in several languages, including German Russian and English. He had been use to using English within the camp and when challenged at a check point in Saarbruken let slip in English to a tragic consequence.


    In 1999, I arranged for a memorial to be place to Scheidhauer and the 50 here in Jersey. Scheidhauer crash landed in the island on 18 November 1942.
     
  4. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    U571 is so far beyond those limits it actually becomes an insult to the men who achieved the enigma capture and obscures their story rather than casting light on it.

    They (US Navy) had their chance on 14th April 1942, but messed it up.
    Thereafter another 8 months of shipping losses, before the capture on U-559 in the Med.

    Google for U-85.

    geoff
     
  5. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    That's the point, all very well to tell a slightly jazzed up version of a story, or to sell a piece of fiction, or even quality hokum, but there are limits. U571 is so far beyond those limits it actually becomes an insult to the men who achieved the enigma capture and obscures their story rather than casting light on it.
    It's initial publicity touted it as a tue story before switching to "9 ordinary men are about to change history" as one of it's taglines... too bloody right.

    Okay sounds good. That can be my point.:huh:

    Could be a new thread coming up here!

    And presto....it appears:p

    The Alabamian Family Robinson?
    Marooned on a desert island where they discover Hitler's diaries, Lord Lucan, and the Marie Celeste's crew...

    Lookout now, Adam, remember, we can have guns, lots of them. Only problem is there are more guys with guns between here and there and that could present some problems.
     
  6. NickFenton

    NickFenton Well-Known Member

    Ian,

    You are quite right, the motor bike scene was something that was added by Steve McQueen based on his interest of motor bikes and his friendship with one of the stuntmen.

    My Father would not watch it but he did say that he remembered the individuals involved. What he did comment on was the near mayhem when the deaths were announced accross the other camps which was well depicted in the film and has been covered by many books since.

    Nick
     
  7. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist

  8. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    In the case of the film "The Great Escape" the only piece that is total fiction is the motorcycle bit with Mr McQueen.

    Admittedly situations and events that weren't directly attributable to the “real” escape, have been re-worked and included in the escape scenes to make the film much more watch-able, however with the exception of the motor cycle stunt the other escape methods, such as the stealing of an aeroplane, stowing away on the ship, walking the Pyrenees etc... Did happen at one point or another during the war.<O:p
    <O:p</O:p

    The other main error in the film is the execution scenes; in the "real" escape the victims were shot in small groups not en-mass.

    <O:p</O:p
    Gordon Jackson’s mistake by answering in English, happened to Bushell and Scheidhauer at Saarbruken. Scheidhauer, a Frenchman, was fluent in several languages, including German Russian and English. He had been use to using English within the camp and when challenged at a check point in Saarbruken let slip in English to a tragic consequence.
    <O:p</O:p
    <O:p
    In 1999, I arranged for a memorial to be place to Scheidhauer and the 50 here in Jersey</ST1:p. Scheidhauer crash landed in the island on 18 November 1942.
    <O:p</O:p

    The motor bike scene was at the behest of Steve McQueen who obviously had some sway in script deviation from reality.

    The introduction of escape methods not used on the actual breakout does introduce fiction from the record of true events.There were many escape ruses that could have also be introduced to enhance audience entertainment but equally would have not enhanced accuracy of the events.

    The escape via the Pyrennes route was accurate (Dutchman. Robert van der Stok) and as was the escape to Sweden via the Swedish owned merchant ship (Norwegians. Per Bergsland and Jens Muller)

    The command of a continental language remanied a key to the route to liberty.Robert van der Stok preferred to travel alone as he thought his security would have been threatened by travelling with a non continental language speaker.No doubt his knowledge of German, French and his native Dutch was such that he could overcome suspicion in interview.However he did not witness a Resistance assassination as shown in the film.

    The Norwegians would be comfortable with the Swedish and Danish languages and as many Scandinavians would be conversant in German.

    The escapers who were less than fluent in any contenental languages were obviously at risk in formal interviews or informal exchanges.It was not uncommon for escapers to be caught out with informal exchanges.There was also another language trap and that was being awoke and mistakingly answering in one's mother tongue.This was always a possibility of those on the run or on clandestine service.

    The murders were carried out in small groups by delegated Gestapo offices,(I think there was 8 offices traced ) in one or two cars capacity but there were many whose place of murder could not be ascertained but the region was ascertained by the crematorium name stamped on their urns.

    There was at least one ex POW in the film and that was F/O Donald Pleasence (Wireless Operator) who was downed in a Lancaster of No 166 Squadron operating out of Kirmington on a raid to Agenville on 31 August 1944.Pleasence was an inmate of Stalag 1 at Barth on the Baltic.

    Pleasing to hear of the Memorial erected in Jersey
     
  9. en830

    en830 Member

    Not sure why all those smilies appeared in my post, I apologise.

    Sad to hear of Jimmy James' passing, a true gentleman. I exchanged a number of letters with him a few years ago.
     
  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    It'll be some aspect of the punctuation being picked up by vbulletin as smilies EN830.

    Eg.
    ; & ) comes out as ;)
    : & D as :D
    etc.

    Sorry 'bout that. Good reason to always check a preview of a post before sending it out.

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     

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