The BBC People's War Archives- Adding insult to injury ?

Discussion in 'Research Material' started by Ron Goldstein, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Good morning all !

    Just in case you needed reminding, we are all in the process of exploring our super new server.

    This morning I was examining the LINKS section and now invite you to follow my steps.

    1. Click on LINKS
    2. Click on REMEMBRANCE & RESEARCH
    3. Click on BBC PEOPLE'S WAR
    4. Click on FINDING YOUR STORY

    The page you should have arrived at then reads as follows, the highlight in red is mine.

    So,,,,,,, what am I complaining about ?

    i haste to tell you and yes, I know I have told you this before !
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/16718-bbc-ww2-peoples-war-archives/page-2?hl=%2Bbbc+%2Bpeoples+%2Bwar#entry442220
    (Comment #38)

    Shortly before the BBC closed their archives to further contributions, as someone who had been a researcher/helper, I was invited down to White City to test out the proposed archives and to make any comment that I felt would be helpful.

    In the mock-up that I was shown and asked to test out I couldn't see the Search box but when I commented on this I was re-assured that the search facilities would be no less than those available on the original site.

    Look now how the BBC have reneged on that promise.

    Instead of the simple search box you are now invited to carry out that complicated procedure listed above.

    Finally, to add insult to injury they have even used my own name to illustrate their calumny !!!!!

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!

    Ron
     
  2. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Hi Ron, all looks a bit convoluted now. If I were to have to type that out per search it would drive me nuts. It probably all just boils down to the cuts that they have made to the BBC. The red button service/information on the TV has been shoddy for ages. They can't even be bothered to use a spell checker before they publish anything!

    It was through this site that drew me to the BBC archives and I have to say I was taken aback that it was closed to further contributions. When you see the new information being discovered on a daily basis here I feel it should have been left open ended. OK, the 60th anniversary is past but it must be preserved properly for the future.

    Keep us posted Ron if you take any action. Mind you, I don't think they could have used a better example, your Army album and all those wonderful photographs and tales are amazing. Maybe you should take it as a compliment that they singled out you name!
     
  3. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Amberdog45

    I have to confess I was amused/flattered when they used my ugly mug to represent the British Army (see pic below) but I would cheerfully swap that for the original search box :)
    [sharedmedia=gallery:images:1490]

    Ron
     
    4jonboy likes this.
  4. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Frankly - I don't expect anything other from the BBc as we have seen a perfect example of their thinking just this week with a constant parade of lefties et al denigrating Mrs Thatcher now that she can no longer defend herself - regarding my

    input to their series - I transferred all of my contributions to WW2Talk many moons ago and to my personal documents so I don't have to bother with their nonsense

    Cheers - see below....
     
  5. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    It does seem to me that there are far too many questionable entries into the BBC archives. I found one story that was virtually word for word of some of my postings..That immediately poses the question...... How Come? Now I am not going to name names for obvious reasons. But that event started me wondering about some of the stuff amongst the proud histories of the majority
     
  6. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Brian

    Good to see you posting again.

    Re the questionable BBC postings, you don't have to name names but I would cheerfully look at the article in question if you send me a PM giving some more details.

    Best regards

    Ron
     
  7. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    I wish something could be done about reinstating the original search box

    Aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh indeed :banghead:
     
  8. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    I doubt that the BBC could implement a search as good as Google or integrate it into their website, so just do as they say use Google advanced search, like this:

    In the site or domain box, enter:


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/


    and fill in other search terms as required.

    Did the original BBC search box have many useful options?
     
  9. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Geoff

    The original BBC search box had but one very simple and uncomplicated option.

    In the box marked SEARCH you entered, for example, Monte Cassino.

    Immediately up popped a list of links to every article that contained the text Monte Cassino

    Am I to be forgiven for thinking that is the purpose of every search box ?

    Ron
     
  10. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Some search boxes have options for AND, OR, including exact phrases, excluding particular words, etc
    I just wondered what the Beeb offered as I had not seen the feature when it was there.

    Cheers,

    Geoff
    (exsearchengineer)
     
  11. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    When it was there, the BBC People's War site had a brilliant search box. As Ron said it was much easier to type in a unit or place and up popped every article related to that subject.
     
  12. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    I am impressed and can see that I shall have to be a bit more precise in my phraseology :)

    Still very pxxxxd off at the BBC for their clear dereliction of duty to all who visit their site :(

    Ron
     
  13. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Google only finds 581 items for 'Monte Cassino' on the People's War website.
     
  14. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    I grabbed all the relevant stories for my research almost immediately I found them. Such a brilliant idea and resource.
     
  15. idler

    idler GeneralList

    My recollection is that the search box was 'basic' with no logical functions.

    It would have been nice if they'd set it up so contributors could choose to allow requests to be forwarded to them from interested parties, rather than hide behind the Data Protection Act. I was very lucky in being able to track down a couple of key contributors and they were very helpful.
     
  16. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Me too idler, I had to jump through hoops to gain contact with one contributor from the Norfolk area. When he found out I had been attempting to track him down for over two years he was very annoyed with Aunty.
     
  17. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Strike while the irons hot-He may say you are copying his stories if you don't get in first ;)

     
  18. chick42-46

    chick42-46 Senior Member

    I can't remember how good the original search facility was but I appreciate, given the personal assurances you were given, Ron, why you are so thoroughly p***ed off at this. Using your name as an example search is just adding insult to injury!

    That said, however, you really can't beat Google once you know how to make the most of it. It's an incredibly powerful search engine (maybe too powerful sometimes). I know, for instance, that a government website I use a lot assumes most users will not use the built-in search engine but will, instead, search using Google. As a result, the technical bods in charge structure their data and write their code in such a way as to take advantage of this.

    The site is www.legislation.gov.uk

    The built-in search facility, while very good for some things, is also pretty unforgiving. It doesn't correct common and obvious typos for instance. Type in "mental haelth Act", for example, and it will find absolutely bugger all. Type the same into Google and the second hit is the contents page of the Mental Health Act 1983 on www.legislation.gov.uk! With many Acts, the contents page is the first hit that Google returns.

    Back to BBC People's War - I thought it was an outstanding idea, very well executed and it was an enormous shame when they closed it down. I remember burning the midnight oil back in 2006 in an effort to post what I knew about my grandfather before the shutters came down. I'd love to be able to update it, as some things I knew then were wrong and I now know a lot more that I could have added.

    The worst thing, as others have pointed out, is how difficult the BBC made it to contact contributors. And once it was shut down, forget it. As a resource, the archive is still worth keeping. But its "frozen" status is such a shame.

    Cheers

    Ian
     
  19. ritsonvaljos

    ritsonvaljos Senior Member

    While the "People's War" site was active, it was possible for someone to contact a 'contributor' about a particular article. In many respects this was similar to the 'Personal Message' ('PM') function of this site. However, this would go to the person who posted the article to the site, which was not necessarily the person who provided the information for the article. For example, I was a "People's War" volunteer and several of the articles I posted to the site were transcriptions of interviews with people talking about their memories of the war years.

    In addition, there was also a "People's War" 'Messageboard'. This tended to be used by people to ask general questions or specific research questions about relatives and such like (similar to the type of questions one sees on the "WW2 Talk" forum. The 'Messageboard' ceased on 14 August 2007 although (at the time I am writing this) is is still possible to view it via the "People's War" 'Homepage'.

    As Lesley rightly mentions (post #11) there also used to be a useful 'Search box' specifically for the "People's War" site (on the 'Homepag'). Thus, if one was interested in finding a particular regiment, location, battle, person etc., inserting that term in the 'Search box' would have provided the links to the relevant articles. There was no need for the "convoluted" search method that some unknown character at the BBC has dreamed up now that the site "Search box" has been removed!

    In addition, one useful aspect from the early days of the "People's War" website were the "Site Helpers". One could look at the "Site Helpers" as a 'Godfather' or 'Godmother', if one may use that analogy. The names of most of these will be familiar to users of "WW2 Talk" (e.g. Ron Goldstein, Tom Canning, PeterG).

    However, there was a lot of free material given out at many of the open days arranged for the "People's War" project. For example, there were free learning booklets given out at regular events all over the UK. So there was a lot of support for anyone to have their wartime story recorded and posted to the website (if they wished) or for those of the post-war generations to find out what their relatives or friends did during the war.

    One of the bugbears I have regarding the archiving of the articles into a relevant category. Most of them (c. 29,500 of c. 47,000) were placed into a particular category by an automated process : Bayesian analysis. The site claims this worked correctly for 85 % - 90% of cases. One does not have to be much of a mathematician to deduce that this means about 15% - 20% of articles are in the wrong category. For example, some articles I posted to the site about Preston, Lancashire were placed in the 'London' category. Hence, if a school teacher in Preston was using the "People's War" site to look for articles about Preston in WW2 they would be unlikely to find them.

    The site was 'active' between June 2003 and January 2006. Thus, June 2013 marks the 10th anniversary of the beginning of the project. How time flies!

    For anyone interested in reading a further appreciation of the "People's War" website, click on the following link to read a recent article written by 'Yours Truly:
    http://2ndww.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/the-ww2-peoples-war-archive.html
     
  20. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    This has now been closed for contributions for two years or so, and the Project archived on the BBC website...

    But unless it's just me - there isn't a search function!!!

    All there seems to be is a set of 64 different categories, and you THEN have to search individually in each category.

    The problem is, I'm looking for one account I read there some years ago now - but can't find my way back to because it doesn't obviously fit in the categories.

    Does anyone else know of a way to search the contributions?
     

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