The Rest is History - Podcast... 169. The Falklands War: Countdown to Invasion "The causes behind the Argentine invasion, and the domestic situation in both Britain and Argentina in the late 70s and early 80s. Episode 1 "...the almost farcical events that took place in the build up, some of the memorable characters like Rex Hunt, and the significance of a reindeer barbecue in South Georgia." 170. The Falklands War: The Task Force Sails Episode 2 "Britain is faced with an Argentine occupation and prepares to go to war. Margaret Thatcher discovers her inner Winston Churchill - but faces a titanic showdown in Parliament, which sits on a Saturday for the first time since Suez. The Task Force eventually sails - to huge public support - while the US, France and Chile all lend a hand." 171. The Falklands War: Battle for the Islands The most controversial episode of the war, the sinking of the Belgrano, takes place, the British Task Force lands and battle plays out. Tom and Dominic thumb through their copies of the Sun, relive Reagan's final plea to Thatcher, and recount the stories of the men on the ground as Britain closed in on victory. 172. The Falklands War: Afterlife In the final part of this Falklands series, Tom and Dominic discuss the legacy of the war in both the UK and Argentina, and debate whether the nostalgic sentiment stirred by Britain’s victory laid the foundations for Brexit.
I have checked Wiki for the Nimrod section and there was one author who claimed flights were made, not from Easter Island, but; cited in part. Secondly it was the ELINT version of the Nimrod, not an AEW version (correction made above): From: Hawker Siddeley Nimrod - Wikipedia Last night - in very quick research - I had dismissed these islands for the better known, larger Easter Island(s). Now Wiki states: Link:Desventuradas Islands - Wikipedia The Wiki map when placed loses the island's location marker. It is a long way north and a long flight into range. Click on the Google maps link and you will see the 'airport' runway is the length of the island! With few apparent facilities. Or try: Google Maps Now, how did a RAF Nimrod get from the UK or Ascension island (where others were based) to this speck or rock in the Pacific? Easter Island is much further out.
Direct track from Ascension is about 4500 miles (statute) and crosses over Brasil. BaeSytems say MR2 has 5,200 - 5,750 miles un-refuelled range, so doable at a pinch.
Blutto, Thanks, I didn't readily find the range of the Nimrod MR2. Personally given the stance of the US DoD (under Caspar Weinberger) on assisting the UK, e.g. the story of offering an aircraft carrier comes to mind, I think going via the USA would have made more sense and potentially help from USAF inflight refuelling. Overflying any Latin American country would have been fraught with difficulties, except Chile! So setting off from San Diego, possibly with a stop in the then US-controlled Panama Canal Zone (which had two airbases), which 2525 miles or 4679 kms and then onwards to a Chilean Island. So from BLB to SCFX 3913kms. Anyway speculation.
I was working as a Prestwick Oceanic ATC at the time, aircraft were going to all sorts of interesting places.
BBC World Service - The Documentary, Counting them in The Documentary In the last 40 years, the Falkland Islands in the South Atlantic have gone from being an impoverished overseas British territory to a rich one, with a per capita income comparable to Norway or Qatar, and from an isolated community of mostly British settlers to a cosmopolitan population of many different nationalities from all over the world. Before the war, the Falklands were a distant outpost of Britain, more British than Britain. But these rocky, rural islands were also in decline, losing so many people to emigration that life on the Falklands seemed barely viable. Now their politics, economy and infrastructure are transformed by lucrative sales of fishing licences to foreign fleets, tourism and the prospect of rich offshore oil deposits. This new prosperity has also attracted newcomers from all over the world – from the Philippines, Chile, Zimbabwe and beyond. People born in the Falkland islands are now a minority. In a referendum held in 2013, all but three voters elected to remain a self-governing British territory, but inevitably the Falklands are now no longer as British as they once were. What does this mutating identity and new-found economic confidence mean for the Falklands’ future? On the 40th anniversary of the war, Mike Wooldridge revisits the islands to report on the extraordinary transformation that has taken place and the challenges that remain with neighbouring Argentina continuing to claim sovereignty over the islands. (Photo: Welcome to Stanley/ Twinned with Whitby sign on sapper Hill road, Falkland Islands. Credit: Peter Hazell/Getty Images) A Ruth Evans production for BBC World Service
Blutto posted: This reminded me that during the Falklands War at one stage there were reports that anything that could hit Argentina was heading south. That did puzzle a few of us civilian observers. First the only airfield available (excluding Chile) was on Ascension Island, which was (and is) operated on behalf of the USAF by a private contractor. Would the USA approve? Was there enough food, fuel and weaponry there? Secondly, what planes did we have with range - with refuelling - to undertake such a mission? The Buccaneer, Phantom, and more Vulcan ./ Victor aircraft.
"Harrier 809" by Rowland White is a good read on some of the lesser known events of the Falklands War. San Felix island was reconoitered by Sidney Edwards as a base for a 51 squadron Nimrod R1,XW664. It flew out via Bermuda & Belize. The ground support eqpt went via Puerto Rico to Chile on a Flying Tigers 747 then out to San Felix on a Chilean C130 I believe. An airport at Concepcion, 300 miles south of Santiago was made available as a refuelling base. On 9 May it left San Felix on its first sortie, refuelled at Concepcion at night and then began flying down rhe Argentine border to Patagonia then back again. Somewhere it lost an engine which made landing back at San Felix tricky. It needed a new engine and mainwheel assembly to be flown out from the UK and I don't think it was ever replaced or flew another sortie during the War. There were also probed Nimrod MR2 recce flights from Ascension to the Falkands, across to Argentina and up the Argentinian coast in international airspace, all with support from the Victor tankers. Britain provided Chile with an S259 air defence radar and personnel to train the Chileans again flown out on a civilian freighter unde strict security. And there were plans to use Canberra PR.9, with a refuelling stops in belize and on the Pan American Highway, but IIRC that came to nothing. But Chile got 3 PR.9 immediately after the War.
This question about the use of Wideawake Field on Ascension comes up often butI don't believe that there was ever any question of the US denying the UK use of Wideawake. Back in 1962, in an exchange of diplomatic notes amending the original lease and subsequent agreements in relation to Ascension Island and Wideawake Airfield, someone was bright enough to include a statement that the USA would grant such "...logistic, administration or operating facilities at the Airfield ....considered by the Government of the United Kingdom to be necessary in connection with its use by United Kingdom military aircraft...." The UK invoked that provision immediately following the Argentinian invasion. That would no doubt have been at Foreign Office / State Dept level. So the ground work had probably been laid before Ron Dick (who is often credited with arranging it) turned up at the Pentagon on Monday 5 April 1982. It has subsequently been further amended to include civilian aircraft. However, it was not simply a case of turn up and find everything that was needed on Ascension. Ascension lacked:- Fuel storage - the existing tank farm had to be expanded and new pipelines laid to the offshore tanker mooring. AIUI a US tanker lay offshore transferring fuel ashore as tank space became available ashore. The fuel itself was drawn from NATO stocks. This work was carried out by RE and RAOC personnel Fresh water - a new desalination plant was sourced from the USA and installed by the RE with help from the US supplier. Sewage - a new plant had to be installed to cope with the vast increase in people on the island (1,000 max before the invasion) Accomodation - derelict Cable & Wireless buildings were refurbished. The USAF flew in 14 C-141 loads of portable living accomodation with 31 x 12 man living modules. These were erected by US and British personnel in 5 days. And still most personnel were accomodated in tents. Communications - 30 Signals Regt arrived on the first weekend to expand the existing Cable & Wireless communications facilities. And 2 Postal Regt arrived to handle an eventual 20,000 mail bags by June. New roads had to be built by the RE as the existing ones couldn't cope with the vastly increased traffic. Laundry, feeding and NAAFI facilities all had to be brought to the island from Britain to cope with the influx of personnel. The personnel numbers on the Island had to be monitored and it was virtually a one in, one out policy that had to be adopted. "Logistics in the Falklands War" by Kenneth L Privratsky is well worth a read.
Victor recce missions too, before the Nimrods had AAR fits. 27 Sqn, equipped with Vulcan B2 (MRR) had been the RAF’s dedicated maritime radar reconnaissance squadron until it was disbanded - was it really two days before the Argentinian invasion? Step up a number of Marham Victors and a variety of bodges, enabled by ingenuity and sometimes copious quantities of Araldite. I am minded of XL192 flown by Sqn Ldr John Elliott and his crew (Dick Evans, Al Beedie, Mike Buxey, Ray Chapple, with Tony Cowling) supported by other refuellers on 20 April 1982 when they undertook the longest ranging operational reconnaissance mission to date - 14 hours 45 minutes and mapping over 150,000 square miles around South Georgia.
Much was written about British efforts to counter the Exocet missiles the Argentinians had (both air- and ground-launched versions), albeit only five missiles. This BBC report in 2012 is a useful read on French cooperation and Dassault, the manufacturer's technical team remaining and working in Argentina. See: How France helped both sides in the Falklands War and Exocet - Wikipedia Within the report is this: I understand it was far more, with the French Navy Aviation flying their Dassault Super Etendards (the Argentinan Navy had four operational aircraft) in attack missions from Brittany southwards to Dakar, Senegal (the last French naval facility and still available). Background: Dassault-Breguet Super Étendard - Wikipedia There was a "sting in the tail" as after the war France resumed sales of both aircraft and missiles to Argentina, though it is possible they are not operational now, one reason being the UK has blocked the sale of spares for the Martin-Baker ejector seats! The aircraft last flew for the French in 2016. It was also reported that as some RN ships sailed home they met a small Russian navy flotilla and the Russians formally saluted them. Possibly one of the RN aircraft carriers and the Russian cruiser Moskava.
That is one version of the Argentinian AM39 Exocet story. That painted in "Harrier 809" published in 2020 is a bit different. In it, the 25 man Aerospatiale technical team responsible for the integration of aircraft and missile, never left France due the arms embargo. So the Argentinians figured it out for themselves. In doing so they were helped by a disaffected Dassault employee, who passed information about the Exocet missile inertial guidance system to an Argentinian naval officer working at the Paris Embassy. He smuggled them back to Argentina with the help of an Aerolineas Argentinas airliner captain. The work in Argentina took 15 days instead of the 30 it was initially thought it would take. Santiago Rivas's "Wings of the Malvinas" published in 2012 also claims that they did the integration themselves. There have also been stories about French attempts to deliver another 5 AM39 Exocets via Peru (stopped by diplomatic pressure on France) and Libya (stopped by the British Secret Service) Clearly the Argentinians were not entirely without rechniical skills. They managed to create a lash up land based Exocet launcher and provide the missiles with targeting data. Of 3 attempted launches, two proved successful and one found a target in HMS Glamorgan. They also managed to upgrade the ESM electronics in the S2E Tracker aircraft. This was helped by being able to trial it against the Argentinian Type 42 destroyers. Back in the early 1970s relations with Argentina were a lot better. We sold them Canberra aircraft in 1970/71 and in May 1970 received an order for a pair of Type 42 destroyers. We built one in Britain (completed 1976) and assisted in the construction of the second in Argentina with the UK providing weapons systems like Sea Dart and the French the Exocet missiles they also carried. There was co-operation with France as the Task Force sailed south. The Sea Harriers took part in dis-similar air combat training against French aircraft over the Bay of Biscay. Refuelling facilities for transport aircraft were made available at Dakar in Senegal (from 3rd April) to get C130s from Britain to Ascension. Gibraltar and Banjul, in Gambia, was also used. This reduced the demand for fuel on Ascension itself. As for the "sting in the tail", the French merely completed the contractual obligations that they had to complete delivery of the remaining 9 Super Etendard aircraft after the war. As for the status of the SE fleet at present, it seems a bit unclear just how many, if any, remain operational. Argentina again has financial woes so who knows if they will ever get back into service. Interesting bits and pieces keep coming out of the Falklands War. In Mariano Sciaroni's "Carrier at Risk" published in 2019, there is the story of a mystery submarine off the Argentinian coast in May 1982. The author's research indicates that this sub was tracked by both sides. But no one knows if it was Chilean, American or Soviet. The same author in association with Andy Smith also published "Go find him and bring me back his hat" about the little known British anti-submarine campaign in the Falklands where the German built Type 209 submarine San Luis caused a few headaches for the RN frigates due to the poor sound qualities of the inshore waters. She was one of a pair of submarines built in West Germany in the 1970s. A further pair were building in West Germany under a 1977 contract and were delivered in 1984 (possibly lying nearly complete in April 1982) & 1985. Another book by Mariano Sciaroni was published a couple of weeks ago. This one is about the SE operations. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1915070...colid=I38YUH7DZNUG&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it Of the 5 air launched Exocets held by the Argentinians at the start of the War, two were fired at Sheffield on 4 May 1982 securing one hit. on 25th May another pair were launched securing two hits on Atlantic Conveyor. The last was launched on 28th May. This last was the raid in which the Argentinians claimed to have hit Invincible.
Now the forty years are up one wonders if any new information will appear from the TNA. I've seen one, may be two tweets so far. Somewhere in the archive I have a non-government paper on the satellite coverage of the Falklands before and after the invasion. I was intrigued to learn that the UK Science Research Council had a satellite station at Port Stanley and a couple of sets of radio masts, possibly belonging then to Cable & Wireless. Plus, the presence of a small American religious community, who from memory asked to leave and were evacuated to Argentina.
One aspect of the Argentine effort that I have always wanted to confirm. Apparently, the best trained and equipped Argentine army units were nowhere near the Falklands The Argentine soldiers sent to the islands were conscripts with limited training and not much in the way of quality or quantity when it came to equipment. Galtieri anticipated a British diplomatic protest only, rather than a full scale amphibious counterattack. It was felt that the distance and logistics of an operation that had to rely entirely on shipping to sustain their operations would make any attempt to take back the islands by Britain a fiasco and therefore wouldn't be attempted. Many journalists had the same view, that any British operation would be too difficult to mount, and journalists found themselves eating their words when the task force not only sailed despite the dire warnings, but prevailed in a very professional manner despite what can only be described as heavy losses
Citing Germanicus in Post 355 (in part): In the original 1983 edition of 'Battle For The Falklands' by Max Hastings and Simon Jenkins (the only book on the war I have) refers to nine infantry regiments (1k each), one artillery battalion, one AA battalion, with some engineers, an armoured car squadron, assorted support arms and one marine battalion (600 men). On pg. 177. The original attack on Royal Marines had been by elite marine commandos, who from memory then withdrew. Hastings and Jenkins book refers pg. 289, just before Port Stanley a RM group being attacked an 'the elite 602 company of special forces.' The book refers to the quality of the Argentinian men being assessed as poor by the observation teams. Their small arms were the same as the UK's, if not better. My recollection is that others commented that the Argentinian Army retained its best units at home, watching the Chilean border. A reminder, when the Falklands Islands Territorial Defence Force was mobilised '23 of the 120 turned out' (p.72).
Watching now on ITV Falklands War - The Forgotten Battle Telling the story of the story of the invasion and the fight the small company of British marines put up. The British press, mainly the Sun newspaper, reported that they surrendered without firing a shot, not the first giant lie that rag had told (Hillsborough), in reality they put up quite a fight and caused Argentine casualties. Anybody who've missed it it'll be on +1 Andy
Apparently the marine commander only received notice of the impending invasion 24 hours earlier even though British intelligence had been aware of the possibility for nine months. Luckily the troops had deployed around in the evening prior to the attack which saved their lives, Argentine special forces attacked their barracks first and obliterated it. Andy
