The renewal of the Red Army.

Discussion in 'The Eastern Front' started by Owen, Nov 14, 2006.

  1. BulgarianSoldier

    BulgarianSoldier Senior Member

    Russian army moved fast forward and as i say agaist any tactical logic.It was really difficult for the German officers to guess the next move of the soviet red army.As for the production Russia saved Moscow,Stalingrad, Leningrad 3 citys who were really important because of the mass production of tanks,artilary and weapons.Hitler though that he compleatly destroyed the Russian army by defeting them in Kharkov and there was no way the Russians could start a big offensive.Maybe the last remaining city with mass production expecialy of tanks Stalingrad was the vital point of capturing.But as i say agaist any german logical plans after roundig 6 army in Stalingrad and compleatly defeating the germans Russians begin strong offencive that gived them some time of rebuilding the army the facilitys and making mass production of tanks.About the tactical chage that owen asked i find a nice picture of the tactical plan in Kursk if you understand something:
    http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/glantz2/images%5Cpg28.GIF
    For Kursk i found unbalivable video watch it if you want to know more http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZM3yrKkoaMo
     
  2. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    This youtube movie you mention is a composite of clips from several periods. See for instance on minute for the images with snow. Snow! Kursk was in July! Sure some parts refer to Kursk, others, well, don't.

    I'm not going to bother with reviewing every second, but quite frankly it would have been better if the boys who made this just left the original clips as they were and did not assassinate them with this well meaning but failed collage.

    I'm not even going to consider the text.:rolleyes:
     
  3. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

  4. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    On the other hand you have this here!

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=sM8QAn-sRoU&mode=related&search=

    Zhukov in the Moscow victory parade, riding Stalin's white horse with Rokossovsky on another!
    Wonderful stuff.

    I'd only seen the bit with the Nazi banners being heaped up before.
    (Wonder where they are now? They could flog them off to raise a few quid for the Federations coffers!)
     
  5. lancesergeant

    lancesergeant Senior Member

    Am sure a lot of you are aware of that classic photos of the Russian on top of the Reichstag unfurling the Russian flag. However were you aware that the flag had been raised previously, but the film crew weren't there so they made them hang the flag again for the benefit of the film crews.
     
  6. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Am sure a lot of you are aware of that classic photos of the Russian on top of the Reichstag unfurling the Russian flag. However were you aware that the flag had been raised previously, but the film crew weren't there so they made them hang the flag again for the benefit of the film crews.

    That has been done before hasn't it?:icon-mrgreenbandit:
     
  7. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Beevor makes reference to Zhukov's place in the victory parade in his Book "Berlin". Stalin wouldnt ride the horse becuase he was thrown from it and I think he thought the same would happen Zhukov!
     
  8. Kyt

    Kyt Very Senior Member

  9. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Great stuff. What an exhibit!
    Though $35k seems a very low estimate for most of them.
     
  10. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    If you follow the other Youtube links on tht Zhukov one, there is a series of four on a fuller colourized overview of the entire parade. If you look carefully, a number of the flags and standards are "trash" (Reichs Arbeit Dienst, etc), but one of them is the famous Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler!

    I had no idea those were for sale (heck, if I were the museum's curator they would have to be taken from my cold dead hands:p ) but I'm sure that one will be worth a hell of a lot more that 35000 USD.
     
  11. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    35,000 USD is very low for the LAH symbol. My god can we organise a whip round and buy it on behalf of the site?? LOL
     
  12. BulgarianSoldier

    BulgarianSoldier Senior Member

    Well those banners must never be for sell.When an army capture the outher army flag then they win.I have been in Bulgarian muselms many times i have seen a lot of item but flags were never for sell.Dont forget how hard and with how many killing those flags were win.I dont know about the tradition of outher coutrys but in Bulgaria the flags and medals are not for sell.
    PS: for you 35,000 USD may be little but for Russian and Eastern parts of Europe 35,000 USD means a lot come in Bulgaria for 10,000 USD you could by the whole Uniform with the weapons of Soviet soldiers.
     
  13. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Bulgy, I entirely agree these banners, flags, vexilla, standards should never be for sale!

    But for the items that indeed are for sale please take a look at http://www.russian-medals.net/ for instance and see what prices some items can reach. I myself have quite a few items I bought in ebay, most of them are copies. Of course I'd like to have originals, but I simply can't afford them.
     
  14. BulgarianSoldier

    BulgarianSoldier Senior Member

    Well if i buy one of those medals i will never put it on me.If i buy something it would be weapons i have an PPSH.I never buy it it was a present from the army.The comander liked me he know that i like the history and expecialy ww2 and he give me the PPSH.
     
  15. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Amazing!:)
     
  16. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Learning the art of maskirovka helped reverse the Red Army's fortunes did it not?
     
  17. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I think now thanks to David Glantz's book Barbarossa I have a better understanding of the changes made to the Red Army in 1941.
    Too convoluted to post here but I did come across one eye-opening fact I'll share about raising of reserves and replacements.

    ....the army's personnel strength rose from 5 373 000 on 22 June to 6 889 000 on 31 August and an estimated 8 million on 31 December.

    Whereas prewar German estimates had postulated an enemy of approximately 300 divisions, by December the Soviets had fielded more than twice that number. This allowed the Red Army to lose more than 4 million soldiers and 200 divisions in battle by 31 December, roughly equivalent to it's entire peacetime army, yet still survive to continue the struggle.

    Note to above quote from same book.
    By 31 December, the Red Army lost a total of 4,308,94[?] men and 229 divisions
     

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