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Tiger 131

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by chipm, Jan 27, 2024.

  1. chipm

    chipm Well-Known Member

    Just making sure i have this correct.............. this was the Tiger that the Brits captured in North Africa.?

    Is there a written record available that documents what The Brits said about the tank after they studied it.?

    I have heard very little discussion about it. What little i have heard on a few videos has been......odd.
    Again, i have heard VERY little about what was determined.
    But the small amount i have heard was, almost like they were not super Impressed/Worried by The Tiger.

    This cannot possibly be the case, can it.?
    I would think, in summer of 1943, The Allies would have been terrified of The Wehrmacht producing tanks that were so far ahead of theirs in armor and fire-power.
    They must have been quite concerned..... right.?
     
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  2. Owen

    Owen Member

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  3. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    Along with Owen's excellent recommendations, the thread for you :)

    Tiger Tiger...?

    Kind regards, always,

    Jim.
     
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  4. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    People should look at this in context, read of the men that were there at the time.
    Yes the tiger was feared by the Allies but in the mountains of Tunisia the Churchill scared the enemy more than the Tiger worried them.
    The Churchill, whilst having less firepower was able to negotiate the tracks over the hills to provide infantry support over high ground .
    Exactly what it was designed for.



     
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  5. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    There is an exhaustive compendium of what the British thought of the Tiger tank here.

    It's well worth getting.
     
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  6. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    The price of the book mentioned above reflects how the media still holds the fascination for Tiger mindedness.
    Even on Kindle.
     
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  7. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    What its like on the receiving end of one of these tanks and the end result.
    "I visited my observation post which was a small trench scraped in the rock about 2ft 6 inches deep and
    about 7 feet long. Unfortunately it had been sited to face one way but owing to a change in the front the enemy were able to fire up the length of it, making it extremely unhealthy.
    It was in full view but had to be used as being the only possible viewpoint.
    They fired at it continuously so that I had three good people shell shocked out of it on Good Friday.
    On Easter Sunday they started when I was there, as there was not enough room in the main hole, I lay in a subsidiary part at the end.
    The fire came I think from a tank and from my knowledge of artillery fire
    I realised that they had us taped.
    It was quite terrifying and I became convinced it was the end.
    My spectacles were blown off and buried and my map and glasses, by one which landed on the edge.
    I had called for a smoke screen from my own guns to cover us but the telephone wire to the wireless had been cut and it was impossible to do
    anything about it. I felt terrible and almost unconsciously I prayed and once I became quite careless and detached and at peace and could wait quite callously.
    Thanks to the good common sense of Tom Averill who realised the position from a scrappy wireless message, smoke arrived in great quantities and all was well".

    Photo taken two days later.

    Tiger.jpg Tiger Rev.jpg
    (Shepherd Family Collection)
     
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  8. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    You might enjoy this thread, Chipm.
    WW2talk - Book review - Catch that Tiger
    It's long, but contains the thoughts of a few chaps that fought against tigers, including Gerry Chester, (who is the source of Tunisian commentary about the thing on here. Turret rotation speed being what put the mark IV well above the VI in threat terms in that terrain).

    The best accessible source on British thoughts about Tiger remains David Fletcher's 'Tiger - A British View (plummeted in price since a recent reprint), which builds on intelligence reports of captured equipment, first sightings & testing, in Fletchers usual engaging style.

    It's not so much thath they weren't impressed by Tiger, more that int. reports are rather dry things (Except perhaps 'Who killed Mr Tiger'), and there was an understanding early on that it was subject to reliability issues.
    Important to note that there absolutely was a wave of disquiet among allied troops as Tiger became known. 'The Tiger panic' had roots in reality going all the way to parliament (eg. https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1945-03-06/debates/d29c4754-cfbb-4a2d-8c4f-8d35fc9dd111/Tanks ) which led to much official output along the lines of damping that down.

    It's good that Tiger is no longer quite so widely admired as a Wunderwaffe in chat like this, and that appraisal is indeed often more along the lines of 'Just another tank', though I'm cautious these days at a dismissive viewpoint going a tad too far sometimes.
    It remains an interesting and impressive machine despite its flaws (standing next to 131 running and looking over at its contemporary opposition, it's hard not to be just a touch 'blimey').
     
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  9. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    It's a big chunky book.

    But generally, I don't think people realise how cheap most books are compared to the amount of work and money that goes into them. If most military history authors awarded themselves the hourly national minimum wage and then put their accumulated wages into the price of each book, then the books would probably cost about £250 each.

    If you spend six to twelve months putting together a book that might sell a few hundred copies with an average £4 royalty, while also expending money travelling to archives and paying £25 plus for single photos, you are effectively making negative income. Even if you sell a few thousand books, you are still making less money than a McDonalds burger-flipper.

    That's why people tend to do this kind of thing when they are retired.
     
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  10. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    "you are still making less money than a McDonalds burger-flipper"

    Well said sir, and indeed, If any at all!

    Kind regards, always,

    Jim.
     
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  11. Owen

    Owen Member

    I'm going to the Tiger Day at Bovy in April with my 2 chums .
    We all did the raffle to get a ride in it.
    Maybe one of us will win .
    I doubt it.


    Tiger Day Spring - The Tank Museum
     
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  12. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I never bought it as I'm on a self-denying book ordnance, have too many Tigger titles, and sort of assumed it was a compilation of stuff I'd already been sent over the years (The much-lamented Brian/ADM199 used to send me Axis tank archive snippets all the time).

    Your liking it makes me go more 'hmmm', but I shall be good.
    Probably.
     
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  13. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    It's a compilation of both already-seen and new stuff, and indeed some of the stuff in it I've got copies of from the archives myself. Its value lies in the fact that it's all concentrated in one place, so if you're new to the Tiger, you can get pretty much all the British examinations of the Tiger in one place. You also don't get David Fletcher's voice in your head, which for me personally is a massive bonus.
     
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  14. chipm

    chipm Well-Known Member

    Oh Wow............. Thanks for all the replies and info
    Yes, i always enjoy David Fletcher :)
     
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  15. Owen

    Owen Member

    I got this email from Bovy earlier this week, I didn't win the raffle.
    Are these 3 raffle winners any of you lot ?

    Congratulations to Eric from Deal, Richard from Kent, and Jude from London for winning rides in Tiger 131, Panzer III, and Sherman Fury respectively.

    They have accepted their prizes and we look forward to seeing them on Tiger Day.
     
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  16. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    Good luck to the winners, wear yer toe'tectors.

    Kind regards, what tank? always,

    Jim.
     
  17. Owen

    Owen Member

    Some pics from today taken on my phone.
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Your pic of the Tiger from below is 1000% more creative than any photo I took on my visit to the museum!
     
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  19. Owen

    Owen Member

    Meccano Tiger 131 with Nerf gun main armament at STEAM, Swindon yesterday.


    20240915_103121.jpg
     
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  20. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Beats those Dockside Cranes we used to make as kids!

    Below: Tiger 101(?) behind hill 144 Medjez April/May 1944 taken by Major David Shepherd BC 266 bty
    Tiger.jpg Tiger Rev.jpg
    (Now see I have posted this before on #7)
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2024
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