Tiger tanks versus Kiwi Shermans

Discussion in 'Books, Films, TV, Radio' started by kiwisid, Jul 27, 2013.

  1. kiwisid

    kiwisid New Member

    Tank warfare in the Italian Theatre, especially in the last year of the war, was no less intense than those higher-profile (as far as the mainstream media were concerned) armour engagements west and east of Germany.

    The 2nd NZ Division came up against its first Tiger tanks in July 1944, during the advance to Florence. These late-production Tiger Is were engaged not only by M4A2 Shermans, but by M10 Wolverines, artillery & Desert Air Force fighter-bombers. By late July the Kiwis had their first success when a Tiger withdrawing across open ground, in broad daylight, was knocked-out by a combination of armour and artillery fire.

    However, such success came with a price. A Tiger (probably commanded by Leutnant Harder, 2nd Kompanie, s.H.Pz.Abt. 508) knocked-out a troop of Kiwi Shermans in less than five minutes at La Romola, on the Paula Line, that same summer. The Tiger was sited at a ninety-degree angle to the line of advance of the three Shermans, and apparently used the line of a straight road cutting through a valley, which provided a narrow - though excellent - arc of fire. The Tiger was possibly working in conjunction with infantry spotters. The three advancing Kiwi Shermans had only just pulled up (in line-abreast), near the watertable of this same road, and didn't know what hit them. The Tiger withdrew unscathed and unseen, the German panzer crew having implemented a classic bushwhack.

    Last year I published a novel called Greyhound and the story covers this incident, plus many other engagements and confrontations the Kiwis had; with not only German Tigers, paratroopers, SS; but also Tito's Communist partisans...even after the official cessation of hostilities! Greyhound weaves fiction around little-known (but gripping) fact. To buy Greyhound check Amazon Kindle for the ebook (US$4.95, GBP3pound). Readers can also do a search on the net: Sid Marsh, Greyhound.

    Kiwi Shermans came up against Tigers & Panthers with a vengeance, leading up to the advance on Venice, from April 1945. Three Kiwi Shermans liberated Venice (not forgetting the Italian partisans, of course), with the assistance of a mobile company of 22nd (NZ) Battalion. The troop of tanks engaged German armoured cars, artillery pieces, and panzer-grenadiers with panzershreks, in order to win the causeway to Venice proper. Over 300 German POWs were taken at the end of this action.

    Thank you for reading this.

    KiwiSid
     
  2. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    KiwiSid

    Welcome aboard !

    Are you aware that one of our distinguished members, Gerry Chester, ex of the North Irish Horse, is the undisputed doyen on all matters relating to the exploits of that famous regiment and the role of the Armoured Corps in Italy during ww2.?

    Gerry's website, link given below, is brilliantly executed and well worth a visit.
    http://www.northirishhorse.net/

    Ron
     
  3. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Kiwisyd

    While I don't have web site or even a diary to prove my points but I DO recall that when I was in Italy alongside Gerry - in a sister Tank bde - i thought that the Kiwi's had already bumped into

    one or two Pz mk VI commonly referred to as Tigers long before Florence in fact - it might have been around the Sangro during November 1943- or even Termoli - not too sure about that- and there

    was a mention of Tanks - various models possibly including the Tigers attacking both 28th Maori battalion and the 16/5th Lancers who had taken over the station at Cassino during the 2nd Battle in the

    early year of 1944......we all bumped into the PZmk V which they called the Panther when it was introduced in the LIri Valley after the Hitler Line had been knocked over by 2nd Bde of the Canadian

    1st Inf. Div - and Gerry's NIH...before they let us join the fun at Frosinone ..but what do I know - I think I was there..I do know that I spent a long time in hospitals being patched up from getting in the

    way of an 88MM from somewhere on the Gothic Line..so I should check your books again...

    Cheers
     
  4. zola1

    zola1 Member

    Hi Kiwisid,

    Welcome to the forum :) ,

    Excellent first post, i will checking out your novel, well done.

    Derrick
     
  5. kiwisid

    kiwisid New Member

    Thanks to those who responded to my post.

    I humbly acknowledge the active service credentials (also friend/family losses & personal injuries) of Tom and Ron in WWII. Thank you both for doing your bit, so my generation today can have a life free from Nazi (and communist) tyranny.

    Copy all, Derek, regarding Greyhound. Ta.

    I looked at Mr Chester's impressive site too (first two KO-ed Panthers for the Western Allies - in May 1944).

    Well, in Cassino itself, there were no Tiger tanks. I don't have my sources to hand, but I am pretty sure there were originally three StuG IIIs in the rubble below the monastery and around the railway station. By March 1944 the paratroopers were down to one StuG only. There is a brilliant sequence of German still shots showing the StuG operating in and around its lair (a brick cellar, of course!). With its 75mm L/43 gun, the StuG was absolutely brilliant on the defence, and therefore perfectly suited for downtown Cassino and the narrow firing arcs, flanked, as it was, by veteran paratroopers.

    So, essentially, for several long weeks, one lone StuG paralysed the whole Western Allied army in Italy. As if to emphasise this, KO-ed Sherman hulks littered the outskirts of Cassino.

    The first Tiger tanks the Kiwis engaged were in the countryside south of Florence. The Kiwis had earlier struck up-armoured Panzer IVs, and with armour skirts around the turret & a similar muzzle-brake on the big gun, these looked very similar to a Tiger. Till the end of 1943 there had been self-propelled guns and even flame-throwing Panzer IIIs, but no Tigers. The Kiwis may have seen the odd Tiger in North Africa, but that was all it was (a Brit Churchill got at least one!). Of course, there were no New Zealanders on Sicily, where there were definitely Tigers.

    The most notable Tiger encounters for the Kiwis, were during the battle for Florence in the Summer of 1944; and also the Senio breakout in April 1945.

    Panther tanks were encountered north of Rome, right till after the cessation of hostilities in the respective Austrian/Italian/Mediterranean Theatres on May 2nd, 1945. My novel Greyhound available on Amazon Kindle also covers this later period in detail (Google: Sid Marsh & Greyhound).

    In fact, on May 3rd 1945, outside a little known town called Villa Opicina (close to the Jugoslavian border), a company of Kiwi infantry, backed by a troop of three Kiwi Shermans, were forced to take cover in trenches side-by-side with 1,200 armed German troops and Panther tanks, as their positions were raked by mortar and machine-gun fire from Tito's Jugoslavian Partisans (supposedly 'Allies'). Both Jerry and the Kiwis took casualties from this fire. Officially, at least, the Kiwis did not return fire. That evening, the Germans boarded their Panthers and followed the Kiwis/Shermans back down to Trieste on the Adriatic coast.

    Fact is stranger than fiction.

    Ta - KiwiSid
     
  6. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    KiwiSid

    Thank you for your kind words regarding active service credentials.

    Unfortunately, my service with the 4th QOH did not start until March 1945. At Cassino I was still in the 49th LAA and too largely occupied in staying alive to concern myself with the activities of other units.

    I cannot, therefore, speak as a Tankie in matters relating to Cassino and will rely on others to make further comments on this matter particularly Gerry Chester, if he can be caught pausing in his travels :)

    Ron
     
  7. kiwisid

    kiwisid New Member

    The last known Kiwi Sherman versus Tiger tank engagement (that I know of, at least), occurred on April 12th 1945, when the Kiwis knocked-out five Tigers in and around the town of Massa Lombarda.

    Does anyone know when and where the last Tiger actions occurred in Italy? Surely there were some more actions up to May 1945. Did the Yanks have some armour engagements after mid-April?

    A quirky Kiwi fact:

    Nearly two weeks after VE Day, 25 T-34/85s of the 2nd Jugoslav Tank Brigade rumbled into Trieste from the east. These proceeded to the Hotel Savoia, on the CBD waterfront, where there was a confrontation with the Shermans of the 19th (NZ) Regiment (50-odd tanks). Although the atmosphere was 'electric', cool heads prevailed and what could easily have devolved into a Cold War tank battle was thankfully averted at the 11th hour. Events in Berlin, between the Russians & Yanks there, completely overshadowed what was possibly a much greater crisis between Tito (backed by Stalin) and the Western Allies in Trieste.

    Ends.
     

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