Tractor, Arty Light?

I'm seeing this phrase in the war diary of a Canadian light aid detachment (LAD) for 2 Canadian Anti Tank Regiment. Ford and Chevy. Do they mean field artillery tractors or something I'm not aware of?

 

Might be a Bren carrier too. Ford of Canada made a lot of them

 

I meant to mention as a curiousity, that they also mention T-16 carriers.

 

Here are the two Tractor, Artillery Light, from the Canadian Vehicles Data Book (included the cover of the book)

 

Thank you Temujin! But does the FAT page actually say 'light' anywhere? That's my essential point of confusion. Or is it just 'light' in comparison with a 'Tractor, Heavy Artillery'?

 

deleted. My post was confusing

 

Well, good point, but it was at the “start’ of the “TRACTOR” list, and if you note below, it’s the same “tonnage (3 Tons)” as the Light AA Tractor…….and then just below them is the MEDIUM TRACTOR, which is listed at 4 Tons……and further down, you see a “breakdown TRACTOR, HEAVY, rated at 5 tons

So, I looked at this and thought that BOTH the FAT and LIGHT AA tractors were “light”…..

Another thought is checking the vehicle types USED by the 2nd Cdn Anti Tank Regiment they were supporting……that would tell you the typical vehicles the LAD would be repairing…..let me check that for you

 

OK, here’s what I have found in reference to the War Establishment (Vehicles) of a Anti Tank Regiment (Inf Div) 1945.

First, as you probably already know, the AT Regiment had 4 Batteries (gun batteries) and the 2nd Canadian Anti Tank Regiment were;

1st Battery - 18th AT Battery
2nd Battery - 20th AT Battery
3rd Battery - 23rd AT Battery
4th Battery - 108th AT Battery
LAD - 69th LAD, RCEME

As you can see from the diagrams below, each battery had “various” gun types, from 6 Pounder AT, 17 Pounder AT, Archer’s etc……and their “tow vehicles” also ranged from Univeral Carriers, to half tracks and of course the Archer’s were SP’s

Also, on these diagrams, it INCLUDES the assigned 69th LAD’s vehicles (LAD info on the bottom of the second page)…..which beside the 2 MC:
2 x 15 cwt GS 4x4
1 x 15 cwt with wireless 4x4
1 x 3 ton GS 4x4
1 x 3 ton Wrecker 4x4
1 x Medium Wrecker

NOTE: After the AT Regiment diagrams, I’ve include the “LEGEND” to the pictures on the diagrams.

So, looking at all of this, NOWHERE does it show a FAT or the Light 3ton AA Tractors on establishment for either the AT Regiment or the LAD…….so all this doesn’t help you solve this mystery……

My “gut” (for what it worth) tells me that it probably is the 3ton Light Tractor (not the FAT)……but I’m guessing….so unless you can come up with more vehicle info??

By the way, in the files at LAC, their ARE files that detail ALL the vehicles assigned to a Unit each day…..in a vehicle report……so this information IS AVAILABLE, if you choose to have someone go to LAC and go thru the units records……..I have some for RCE units, and I’ll post an example up in my next post on this thread






LEGEND INFO

 

Chris, as promised, here’s an example of the Daily Vehicle Return……this one is from the 4th Cdn Field Company, RCE………this was in its files at LAC (Ottawa)…..and was with the PART ONE Daily Orders (in the same box I believe).

Some units listed the Census Numbers of the vehicles also……so if you really want to find out if this was a vehicle assigned to the LAD, you could check further with LAC

 

Dave mentioned a “Carrier”, which IS a possibility. I’ve included info from the Vehicle Data Book on the Universal Carrier that was used in Canadian service to tow the 6 pounder AT Gun below

But my thoughts are the War Dairy document you posted was pretty clear it was a Ford Tractor Arty Light………no mention of “carrier” in the description…..so I’m not sure if it would have been this in the LAD……my gut is still saying Tractor, Light AA????

IT MAY, have come from the 3rd Light Anti Aircraft Regiment……which was also part of this Division………but I would have thought they had their own LAD to take care of their vehicle issues (unless this LAD was doing it for their LAD)

EDIT: I just checked the Light Anti Aircraft Regiment, indeed the WE CDN HQ-III/12c/3 & BTY-III/12A/3, dated 28 Feb 44 have ALL there tow vehicles as the 3 Ton LAA Tractor 4x4…….and the 3rd Cdn LAA Regiment had it’s own repair unit, 3rd LAA Workshop, RCEME…….so they may have been getting “help” from the 69th LAD????……….AND, I just investigated the 3rd LAA Regiment’s War Dairies……on the 29th Jan 1945 the 3rd LAA Regiment was taking part in a HOCKEY PRACTISE in Tillburg….and you know in CANADA, what comes first, HOCKEY or WORK……well you know the answer…..and probably the poor blokes in 69th LAD had to take up the slack…..

 

Just a side note Chris, while looking for information on this in the 2nd AT Regiment War Diaries, I found this record, the Daily Field Return of Other Ranks for the 69th LAD, on the 3 Feb 45. You can see on this date they had less than 1/2 of their War Establishment on strength. WE was 46 and Actual Strength was 22 on that date.



I plotted the Map References Locations of both the 69th LAD and the 3rd LAA Workshop at this time period (MR’s from War Diaries of both Units), As you can see, they weren’t very far from each other. Also read the history of the 3rd LAA Workshop (copy below), and during this time period they were undertaking a MAJOR maintenance program and stripping and rebuilding all of the 3rd Anti-Aircraft Regiments 40mm Bofor’s guns and gun tractors, so I suspect the reason that 69 LAD may have received one of their Gun Tractors to maintain was to help them out (it probably wasn’t the HOCKEY….but it was a good reason)

 

Also for your information, your post also mentions “cookers received for repair”…..below is what these “cookers” were

The standard issue cooker was an oversized gasoline blowtorch that weighed 60 pounds. The food was partially cooked, then placed in insulated containers where the process was completed without further use of the cooker. Seven containers and insulators with miscellaneous utensils met the needs of a company.

The fuel was vaporized by passing through a ring shaped pipe heated by the flame. This vaporizing ring blocked up after a few hours use by deposits from the fuel. The easiest way to clean the ring was to cut it off, heat it to dull red, and force pure oxygen through the ring to oxidize the deposits. These rings lasted through about three such cleaning treatments.

Source:
A History of RCEME to 1946 by
Colonel R.H. Hodgson

 

I would be inclined to go with a bren carrier as an tractor, Arty Light. It's an Anti Tank unit and they regularly used carriers as prime movers.

 

And out of curiosity where did the 13,893 T16/T16E2 carriers built by Ford end up? Production lasted from March 1943 to July 1945 with 4693 produced in 1943, 8200 in 1944 and 1000 in 1945.

 

• Canadian industry produced more than 800,000 military transport vehicles, 50,000 tanks, 40,000 field, naval, and anti-aircraft guns, and 1,700,000 small arms.

• Of the 800,000 military vehicles of all types built in Canada, 168,000 were issued to Canadian Forces. Thirty-eight percent of the total Canadian production went to the British. The remainder of the vehicles went to the other Allies. This meant that the Canadian Army "in the field" had a ratio of one vehicle for every three soldiers, making it the most mechanized field force in the war.

Canadian Production of War Materials - Historical Sheet - Second World War - History - Veterans Affairs Canada

Here’s is Ford Canada’s production numbers for WW2 for Universal Carriers (made in Windsor, Ont) and trucks

Canadian units arriving in the United Kingdom in 1939-40 found shortages of all types of vehicles; Canadian-made universal carriers did not arrive until 1941. At the end of Aug 1941, Canadian units in the UK had need of 730 carriers with only 519 on strength. Canada at that time was using Univeral Carriers instead of the specialized Mortar Carrier and Observation Post Carriers called for in divisional War Establishments. At the end of Aug 1943, some 2,359 Canadian-made Carriers were on strength, with 143 British-made Carriers in Canadian units. Powerplants were a mixture of 95-horsepower motors, and older 85-horsepower motors. By the beginning of 1944, 3,888 Canadian-made Carriers were on strength, against only 72 British-made.

Ford Motor Company WWII Production Database



www.canadiansoldiers.com

 

http://wartimecanada.ca/sites/default/files/documents/CanadaAtWar.No45.1945_1.pdf

 

Tricky things is vehicles...

As a part of 2nd Cdn Inf Div, 2nd Cdn Atk Regt would have had its four Batteries organised on WE II/186C/1 (effective 14 March 1944) in the early months of 1944. That identified the authorised towing vehicles for the 17-pr guns as 'tractors, artillery, light (FAT & LAA)'. The superseding II/186D/1 (effective 10 December 1944) unhelpfully just mentions 'tractors, artillery light' for the towed 17-pr troop, as did the later II/186E/1 of 13 March 1945.

CMHQ 141, a report on vehicles and weapons used by Canadian forces overseas, mentions at para 38 that the 6-pr gun was towed by the T16 carrier in Inf Bns, Mot Bns and Recce Regts in NWE, with halftracks used in Italy, while in Atk Regts the 6-pr was to be towed by the Field Artillery Tractor. It quotes Equipment Policy Letter No.92, which is online and was issued multiple times between Dec1943 and Mar1945. One of the later issues is here;

Canadian Military Headquarters, London : T-17516 - Image 142 - Héritage (canadiana.ca)

Start page is here for the Mar1945 issue - Canadian Military Headquarters, London : T-17516 - Image 114 - Héritage (canadiana.ca)

The original issue from Dec1943 is here - Canadian Military Headquarters, London : T-17515 - Image 1775 - Héritage (canadiana.ca) and the page re artillery tractors here - Canadian Military Headquarters, London : T-17515 - Image 1797 - Héritage (canadiana.ca)

The holdings for Canadian formations in 21AG, as at 30 June 1944, is here - Department of National Defence : subject files,... - Image 199 - Héritage (canadiana.ca)

WE for 2nd Cdn Inf Div in terms of FA tractors is 144, which is in line with 36 per Field Regt (three Regts) and 36 per Atk Regt (based on WE II/186C/1 with 9 tractors per Bty). Sadly these sources only give the position at the start of the campaign and won't allow for real world changes made over the coming months.

Gary