Unknown British Officer. Captain Porter, 1943

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by Varasc, Apr 6, 2013.

  1. Varasc

    Varasc Senior Member

    Good evening,

    I am studying the WO208/4370 file for former British sapper William Edward Croft, 2116887, 296 Army Field Coy, Royal Engineers (POW Report). He escaped with L/Cpl. Frederick Donald Cheeseman, 137028 from Camp PG 106 Vercelli and reached the Ayas Valley, before to be guided through the Western Alps up to Zermatt, in Switzerland.

    Bill Croft, recently passed away at 101 years, wrote in his POW report that he became aware of the presence of 11 Australians and "two British officers, Capts. Porter and Hall, who paid the guides about L. 10.000 to bring us all over".

    But for me this is a little problem, since Bill and other sources confirm that the Guides took 13 persons to Zermatt, 11 Australians and 2 British (Croft and Cheeseman). I also have a picture of them all in Zermatt, therefore this was true.
    I would like to understand who these captains were and what happened then to them. And why they didn't climbed with the 13 fellow comrades.

    I know it's almost impossible, only having two very common surnames and not being able to access the British archives (since I am not their next of kin), but maybe their unusual military rank would help.
    I mean, "unusual" among the most part of the prisoners I read about, mostly sappers, privates or at least L/Cpls.

    May I ask your kind help, please?

    Kind regards,



    Marco
     
  2. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Marco,

    Would WO392/21 be of any use, there are 2 Captain Halls and two Captain Porters within the document. One of each are Royal Artillery officers.

    Let me know.

    Steve
     
  3. Jedburgh22

    Jedburgh22 Very Senior Member

    They may have been either SOE officers working as BLO's (British Liaison Officers) or A Force (MI9) officers, I will check the SOE files and come back on it
     
  4. Varasc

    Varasc Senior Member

    Thanks indeed Steve and Jedburgh,

    Very useful. So the WO392 file may provide me a couple of possible entries for both the officers? It would be surely appreciated. :)

    Concerning both the BLO and MI9, I have never heard or read about their presence in the Ayas Valley but maybe you are right. Interviewed in 2004 on the "Star", Bill Croft said that he left a ski resort with a hotel where he found many British officers, and that while safely in Switzerland, months later, he was told that the day after he left a whole German division occupied the valley. And whoever remained in the hotel was captured and deported in Germany; the Germans seemed to have been guided by a recognition plane.

    I don't know if this was the fate of the two officers. Maybe they were older and the season too late (I climbed the Monte Castore at once in September and it was surely colder than in mid-summer) and they decided to wait for spring. The problem is, this is just a possibility.

    Thanks for your help!


    Marco
     
  5. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Marco,

    Full images on there way now. I hope they will be of use to you.

    Close ups of the lists below.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Varasc

    Varasc Senior Member

    Thanks Steve,

    Very kind! I checked your attached files. I read:

    Captain Hall, A. F., 155614, R.A.
    Captain Hall, J. H., 100107, I.C.

    Both detained in Camp 49.

    And

    Captain Porter, F. E., 117769, R. A. (Camp 49)
    Captain Porter, H., 137759, R. A. (Camp 35)

    I still ignore the meanings of RA (Royal Army?) and IC.

    Camp 49 was at Fontanellato, near Parma,

    http://www.campifascisti.it/scheda_campo.php?id_campo=422

    while Camp 35 was at Padula (Salerno).

    http://www.campifascisti.it/scheda_campo.php?id_campo=341

    The problem remains, both the camps are quite far from Ayas and the Alps, especially Padula (!). So surely they had been in other camps, maybe not recorder in the WO392 file. Is there any chance to find more about these two couples of British officers?


    Marco
     
  7. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Marco,

    Both Croft and Cheeseman are listed at Campo 53 in the file. No British officer at all is down as being at Camp 106 in the file. So maybe the camp was used later on? But, of course, we know that this file can be inaccurate, as has been stated many times before.
     
  8. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    From what I have seen elsewhere, doing brave things behind enemy lines - especially being an escaped POW - quite often brings recognition in the form of a medal or an award. Here is an example from the London Gazette which may be that type of occasion -


    Supplement to the London Gazette of Tuesday, the 20th of March, 1945

    CENTRAL CHANCERY OF THE ORDERS OF KNIGHTHOOD

    St. James's Palace, S.W.i. 22nd March, 1945.

    The KING has been graciously pleased to give orders for the following promotion in, and appointments to, the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, in recognition of gallant and distinguished services in the field:

    To be Additional Members of the Military Division of the said Most Excellent Order:

    Captain (acting) Frederick Ernest Porter (117769), Royal Horse Artillery
     
  9. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    Captain Hall, A. F., 155614, R.A. - Arthur Ferguson HALL (155614) Royal Artillery

    Captain Hall, J. H., 100107, I.C. - Julian Henry HALL (100107)

    INTELLIGENCE CORPS

    War Subs. Capt. J. H. HALL (100107) relinquishes his commission on account of disability, 1st Mar. 1947, and is granted the hon. rank of Maj.


    Sir Julian Henry Hall of Dunglass, 11th Bt.

    M, #429353, b. 22 February 1907, d. 28 January 1974

    http://www.thepeerage.com/p42936.htm#i429353


    Last Edited=20 Aug 2011

    Sir Julian Henry Hall of Dunglass, 11th Bt. was born on 22 February 1907. He was the son of Sir Martin Julian Hall of Dunglass, 10th Bt. and Alice Mary Hasler. He died on 28 January 1974 at age 66, unmarried.

    He was educated at Eton College, Windsor, Berkshire, England. He graduated from Balliol College, Oxford University, Oxford, Oxfordshire, England, with a Bachelor of Arts (B.A.). He was editor of Colour between 1931 and 1932. He wrote the book The Senior Commoner. He wrote the book Laura Seaborne. He was an actor with the Norwich Players. He wrote the book Two Exiles.

    He fought in the Second World War, with Intelligence Corps and Special Forces.

    He was with the Home Talks Department, BBC between 1948 and 1951. He was a drama critic and obituarist for The Times.


    *********************************************************************************************************************************

    Captain Porter, F. E., 117769, R. A. - Frederick Ernest Porter (117769) MBE

    Captain Porter, H., 137759, R. A. - Harry PORTER (137759)
     
  10. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Good finds Dave, something for Marco to go on there.
     
  11. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    I was curious to see if either of these officers were mentioned in the POW statements of the 11 Aussies involved. I got their names from your other thread.

    Of those 11 soldiers, only 3 have their personnel files already digitized by the National Archives of Australia (NAA). Of those 3, only one has a POW statement on his file and that contains no info whatsoever on his escape, evasion and trek into Switzerland.

    Here are the details of the 11 Australians that arrived in Switzerland on October 6th, 1943 (from http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/28640-towards-the-swiss-borders-looking-for-allied-pows/page-2?hl=cheeseman#entry542881):

    2/12th Battalion, Driver TX75 Joseph Henry Turner

    3rd Light A/A (anti-aircraft) Battery, Royal Australian Artillery (RAA), 1st Australian Corps, Bombardier VX32995 Thomas Watson Russell

    3rd Light A/A BTY VX32728 Ernest Baden Preiser

    3rd Light A/A BTY, Gunner VX47958 William Francis (Bill) Waller

    2/28th Battalion, Private WX15376 Albert Vernon (Mick) Barndon

    2/24th Battalion, Private VX34562 Ernest Andrew Hayes (NAA file digitized - has POW statement – nothing of use)

    2/24th Battalion, Private VX33912 Brian Daniel Smith

    2/24th Battalion, Private VX33373 George James Rhodes (NAA file digitized - NFI)

    22 MG AIF, QX9995 Stuart John Lauder

    2/23rd AIF, Private VX36598 Thomas Henry Kelly

    2/48th AIF, Private SX7858 Ronald Charles Irwin (NAA file digitized - NFI)
     
  12. Varasc

    Varasc Senior Member

    Great work indeed, Dave,

    I confirm the 11 names and data but unfortunately no one of them wrote or referred, even slightly, to these British officers.
    And I have never found a reference on them on other books or sources, nor in my interviews. This would maybe underline the secrecy of their presence there...

    Would it be possible to find the reasons for their recognitions?
    I don't think they came in Ayas from Switzerland, maybe they arrived from other valleys. The Ayas upper border reaches more than 4200 meters.


    Marco
     
  13. Varasc

    Varasc Senior Member

    Hi all,

    I have a little update concerning this thread and, above all, captain Julian Hall. As mentioned, I checked David Stafford's "Mission Accomplished. SOE and Italy 1943-45", Vintage Books, London 2011. An excellent work, indeed, and I would be pleased to write or to meet his author - one of the very few able to avoid any misspelling of Italian surnames and toponyms.

    Anyway, Hall is cited at pages 96 and 103-104.

    It seems he worked closely with SOE officier John McCaffery in Berne and with maj. John Birkbeck in Lugano. Hall had the cover story of a press attaché and managed the Italian contacts their Office had. Unfortunately, except a short reference of his encounter in April 1944 with the 28 years old lieut. Edgardo Sogno. Unfortunately, no data or ideas able to enlight the reasons of his own presence under the Alps, nor the date of his escape through the Alps.
    I mean, in October 1943, was he still at large or already in contact with SOE and arrived from Switzerland for unknown purposes, when he met the 11 Australians and the two British former prisoners?


    Marco

    Hall.JPG
     
  14. Varasc

    Varasc Senior Member

    Hello, I would like to know more on Captain Julian Henry Hall, 100107, Intelligence Corp, if possible. Please contact me if you have any suggestions in this regard.
    Thank you in advance,
    Marco
     
  15. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Marco,

    I have checked the excellent book 'Target Italy: the Secret War Against Mussolini 1940-1943; The Official History of SOE Operations in Fascist Italy' by Roderick Bailey, pub. 2014, it has no references to the names in this thread. His website is: Roderick Bailey

    Perhaps worth asking him for help?
     
  16. Varasc

    Varasc Senior Member

    Worth trying, thank you indeed for your suggestion!
     
  17. Varasc

    Varasc Senior Member

    Dear All,
    I am working on with the search dedicated to Captain Hall. I am currently checking the National Archives records, available on the SOE topic and related issues. May I only ask if I am in the right place, here?

    Records of Special Operations Executive | The National Archives

    I also contacted several institutions, museum and historians related to the Intelligence Corps, and tried to write to David Stafford himself, whose book “Mission Accomplished” cited Captain Hall.

    Thank you for any possible suggestion.
    Best regards,
    Marco
     
  18. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    I would suggest you start a conversation with member Jedburgh22 - SOE is his area and he may already have knowledge and files of this person

    TD
     
    vitellino and Varasc like this.

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