Varsity: C47 crash with British paras

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by alberk, Feb 2, 2021.

  1. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    one things for sure, they’re unloading that in a safe place, no enemy fire is coming in judging by their movements. I think the only way to have half an idea on these locations is to be there, looking at possible locations. A tricky task!
     
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  2. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Ellern aerial.png
    I see a clear pattern of flight and landing directions.
     
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  3. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    You can also see the glider (circled) that went into the tree line and killed 2 men from the 8th Battalion at their HQ RV.
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    I thought it was the one a little further to the left...
     
  5. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    Could be? I just remember 8 Para HQ Coy used that finger of wood as their RV, along with C Coy.
     
  6. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    I came across a small biography on Lt. Charles Richer, CFPU, recently that may be of general interest. Not much new there but the image quality is fairly good for a PDF.

    Viewing Newsreel #67 I just realized the pilots seen near beginning of Rhine Crossing section are sitting in a Hamilcar cockpit. So possibly the pilots of the Hamilcar that brought Lt. Richer and the other Canadian cameramen to Germany.

    Also in #67 there are three clips showing gliders coming into land and they appear to have all been shot from same location. I spliced them together as best I could as a stitch wouldn't work. I'll attach, but it will get reduced down considerably. There appears to be an orchard on the right.

    Newsreel #67-Glider Landings.jpg

    Regards ...
     
  7. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    I remember discussing this view before, the glider coming into land on the left of your picture: I wondered if it was filmed from the very Easterly boundary of DZ A, as having been there (hopefully alberk can confirm) the ground is slightly sloped down from the 8 Para finger of woods to the track, which does match that view with regards to a slight slope.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Alex1975uk, to come back to a former subject: you are right about the crashed glider in the corner where the 9 Bn RV was.

    As to the terrain features I can say this much:
    features.png
     
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  9. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Cee, to come back to the burning aircraft over the DZ - this is what the war diary of 9th Para Bn says:

    "1020 - Three aircraft hit by AA and two of them on fire. One aircraft crash-landed with the starboard engine in flames."

    So, we have an indication that the footage may have been filmed on DZ "A".

    Best, Alex
     
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  10. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Some time ago I discovered this while I was looking for 3 Para Bde's Hamilcars... looks like a C-47 that skidded and then turned to come to halt. What do you think? This view shows the area to the north of the DZ.
    northern edge of DZ A.png
    The main road is the tree lined one going north, here on the very left of the photo.
     
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  11. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

  12. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    Agreed, that’s a C47, the skid marks do line up with our synopsis of where this all might have happened. In the video clip it does show the C47 slowly losing altitude, perhaps a controlled landing almost so that would match that C47 that obviously didn’t blow up.
     
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  13. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    Photo of mine from roughly the same place, the view is too far left but you can see the slight rise up to 8 Para woods
     

    Attached Files:

  14. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    A very slight rise...
     
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  15. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    The C-47 should be 42-92774 of 37 Troop Carrier Squadron/316 TCG. There is no Missing Air Crew Report for it, which suggests that the crew survived and its whereabouts were known soon after March 24th. The area was - to my knowledge - still in German hands on March 24th. So, if the crew were taken prisoner they probably were liberated soon after. Otherwise there would have been a MACR - is my reasoning correct?
     
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  16. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    Interestingly on the glider plot map they have circled that C47 as a horsa.
     
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  17. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    I still think it is a C-47... and certainly looks like one. And its position (the one closest to DZ A) fits into the pattern - which looks like a string of pearls...
    Karte 1963_markiert.jpg

    Frankly, the glider plot map has turned out to be a bit unreliable. For example, I am still trying to work out where the Hamilcars for 3 Para landed - the markings in the plot did not get me very far when looking at the aerials for Eltern and Mehrhoog. Any idea?
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
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  18. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    Excellent stuff Cee, thanks for posting this up.

    Kind regards, always,

    Jim.
     
  19. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    02_Foto_LAC_2.jpg
    This photo was taken by Lt Richer on the flight to the Rhine on March 24th.


    Another one by Richer - before take off:
    01_Foto_LAC_3.jpg
     
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  20. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    And on March 27th this is Richer (on the right) with his colleagues of the Canadian Film and Photo Unit - still in the vicinity of Wesel:
    Lattion Calder Richer.jpg
    Their jeep probably came in in by a glider - but that is pure speculation...
     
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