War Grave Belgium: Joseph FAIL, 2 LINCOLNSHIRE, DENDERWINDEKE COMMUNAL CEMETERY

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by hza, Jun 17, 2010.

  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Without checking I'm assuming the above citation is not online.

    I'm at the National Archives next week from Tues now to Saturday (I've got a list of over 50 files to copy now). I'll add it to my list but I suspect I won't have time I'm affraid.

    Regards
    Andy
     
  2. hza

    hza Member

    We have been working on the Facebook page of Joseph Fail last weeks, and doing some more research and still have contact with Louise.

    My question, We are looking info over the people who wrote the site :
    The Second Battalion of The Lincolnshire Regiment

    The page is designed by Edward Dunstan, his grandfather was Alf Richardson. The quote from a Jack Millar about 'Joey' Fail is still a big question.
    Also the story from Cpl Lindley Jack is a possible lead to new info.

    Can anyone provide some more info?

    Kind Regards,

    Peter
     
  3. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Hza

    I presume you've tried to contact them without success using the feedback form.

    Cheers - Rob
     
  4. hza

    hza Member

    Hza

    I presume you've tried to contact them without success using the feedback form.

    Cheers - Rob


    Yes, a few times, but no result ...

    An idea how to find an 'Edward Dunstan'?
     
  5. hza

    hza Member

    Great news!
    We have a photo of Joseph Fail.
    It was a very emotional moment when we got the photo from Louise.
    Thanks to her!

    [​IMG]
     
    Buteman and englandphil like this.
  6. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    Excellent Peter, Im glad that the contact with Louise has been fruitfull. Keep up he good work.

    P
     
  7. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Well done Peter. This was always going to be a difficult one and fantastic to get a photo.

    Regards - Rob
     
  8. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    This is one fantastic thread and is a tribute to many forum members and their knowledge which is shared to all without any thought of return- well done all
    Cheers
     
  9. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    This is one fantastic thread and is a tribute to many forum members and their knowledge which is shared to all without any thought of return- well done all
    Cheers

    ...and to the Flemish Fire Brigade who of course also do the honours at Ypres each evening.:poppy:

    Joseph Fail was quite the stylish gent with his Ronald Coleman moustache. Nice to see a photograph.
     
  10. hza

    hza Member

    The photo is taken in 1939.
    Joseph was 30 at that time.
    The woman next to Joseph is his half sister Greta, she was 20 at that moment.
    The photo is provided by Greta.

    Louise told us that Greta thinks Joseph looks like Clarke Gable.

    Kind regards

    Peter
     
  11. hza

    hza Member

    Best wishes for 2011 from me and Eric!

    We have read parts of the book The Poachers by David Nalson.

    There is a quote that has something interesting.
    On the 17/18 may 1940, 2nd lincolns were moving together with Duke of Marlborough.

    Has anyone a tip if there are is a battle diary from Duke of Marlborough, like the one witch we got from Ramacal for 2nd Lincolns.


    Regards
    Peter
     
  12. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Do you mean the Duke of Wellington's Regiment? That would be their 1st battalion who were in 1 Division on 3 Division's right flank at Louvain.
     
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Ref post 17 and the quote:

    If the circumstances permitted he would have been evacuated to one of the Brigades or Corps medical units (most likely which ever was the nearest or allocated at that time).

    As mentioned in a later post by Andrew (Idler) 9 Brigades medical unit was No.9 Field Ambulance. However one of the other Brigades or II Corps units may have been closer or have been allocated for them to use at this time. The other units are No.7 and No.8 Field Ambulance that were within 7 and 8 Brigades. At Corps level there was No.14 Field Ambulance and No's 5 and 6 Casualty Clearing Stations. Unit locations within the diaries for the 16th 17th May should help you ID where he went in relation to where he was buried. It's fairly safe to say that if he made it to a RAMC unit they would be at the same location as the burial. The only other options would be he was left where he was as the battalion moved and was buried by the local civilians or if he received medical treatment from the Germans then their medical unit would have been very near to that location.

    Ref post 18:

    This shed some light on what was happening at the time regarding casualties. There was a Military Hospital at Etaples so casualties were being evacuated to the rear and in the case of Simpson he was most likely on his way to be shipped home from Boulogne. However Foxon is a bit more confusing assuming the details (date) are correct in the diary. He has no known grave which looking at his injuries would suggest he was buried locally by either his unit or civilians and his body was never recovered/found after hostilities. There is also the posiibility his wounds were so severe he was never found, ie Completely blown up.

    Ref post 43:

    No Next of Kin permission required for his service records. Anyone can apply for them as he died over 26 years ago.

    Ref post 46:

    Do you know the name of the Chaplain? They are listed as attached officers on nominal rolls.

    Whilst 1 DWR were in the area of Voslem they received orders on the 17th May at 1700hrs to retreat to Idegem on the River Dendre. They set off at 1930 hrs and the route taken was: Goyck-Denderwindeke-Idegem with the possibility that they might have to hold the road running North and South Engheim-Assche.

    On the morning of 18th May they were at Goyck having breakfast and reached Idegem at 1400 hrs. No further mention of Denderwindeke in the diary on these dates.

    The men collected are from the Norfolk Regiment.

    Regarding 1 DWR's MO it was a Lt. Cullen in April and then at some point changes to another Lieutenant in May who's name I can't quite make out but if definately is not a Capt. Thompson nor is their a Thompson in the officers nominal roll. The MO looks like A G (Mithells?).

    Ref post 72:

    The possible problem with that is that both 1DWR and 2 Lincs had battalions from their own divisions on both sides of their own flanks. The 2 Lincs were south of Louvain defending the area of Heverle with 1 KOSB on their right flank and 2 RUR on their left. 1 Suffolks, 4 R. Berks and 2 E Yorks appear to be in reserve on my map dated 13th to 16th May.


    I'll type up some stuff from a 3 Div BEF history later.
     
  14. hza

    hza Member

    [​IMG]

    Enclosed the death certificate as we got it from the city council Ninove.
    It is written in Dutch, no name of the chaplain.
     
  15. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Army Personnel Centre - British Army Website

    Because he died over 25/30 years ago you can apply for his records without requiring a next of kin approval form being signed.

    So the photograph of his grave or the CWGC certificate for proof of death and a cheque for £30 is all you need on top of completing the appropriate form(s) to get a copy of his service records.

    Regards
    Andy
     
  16. hza

    hza Member

    Over 2500 views - we could not immagine that our search would interest so much people.

    We plan a visit to the UK in the week of 18th april 2011. With the boat we will go to Hull, and then with a camper we will visit related places/people.

    Have you got some must see/meet tips for us related to our search : Joseph Fail / Durham / 2nd lincs/ Lincolnshire/ may days 1940.

    A crate of Witkap can be provided :D:D:D

    We will post our tour plan and after the tour a summary.

    Kind Regards

    Peter, Eric&Matthias

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  17. hza

    hza Member

    No replies for our visit to England? Hope to get some tips for 'must see' places.

    My mate Eric has found a new lead : it brings us back to 1935.
    Aparently, Our Joey Fail was in Malta and Palestine on special service.

    On next page : The Royal Lincolnshire and Royal Anglian Regimental Association
    there is written that J.Fail was in the battalion boxing team, as welther weight.

    Greetz

    Peter
     
  18. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Hi Peter
    Maybe the English don't like Witkap. ;)

    Wishing you a fun trip - and some helpful replies.
     
  19. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I missed your request.

    The May 1940 stuff is all down South - You could go to Ramsgate and see where the 'Little Ships' left for France to take part in Op Dynamo and one of the Sun Tugs that took part. There is also Dover Castle that has some Op Dynamo stuff there. See the end of the thread in the link below ;)

    There is also a (I found out the other day) a Op Dynamo Memorial in Dover.

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/ww2-battlefields-today/16839-walking-footsteps-british-expeditionary-force-2008-2009-a.html

    I'll let you know if I think of anything else
     
  20. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Peter
    Maybe the English don't like Witkap. ;)

    Wishing you a fun trip - and some helpful replies.

    Some of the English do Diane, some of us do ! :)

    One of the problems is that there is very little relating to the 1940 campaign to see in the UK as far as I'm aware. Even Aldershot and Colchester have changed so much that there is little left to show what garrison life was like in the 1930s.

    You chaps will presumably be calling on the Lincolnshire's museum ?

    Royal Lincolnshire Regiment and Lincolnshire Yeomanry Collections

    I'm not surprised to see that Joey Fail boxed (what a great find by the way). It was almost compulsory in the British Army of the 1930s and many arguments and disagreements were settled in the ring. With little money available for proper training, the troops were kept busy with sporting activities and the battalion histories of the period contain little else. Certainly a lack of the realisitic exercises which would have helped in 1940.

    Are you going to start your trip on the Dijl ?
     

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