What is the best WWI research website?

Discussion in 'Prewar' started by tmac, Nov 12, 2015.

  1. tmac

    tmac Senior Member

    Can anyone tell me what is the best research website for finding information about a soldier who died in the Great War? There are quite a few of these websites, including ancestry, findmypast, etc, but they get a bit confusing when you read their advertising blurbs. I particularly want to find a record of the soldier's medal entitlement. Any help would be appreciated.
     
  2. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Can you post as much information as you can, DOB, name, service number etc. Alot of WW1 service records were lost in a fire, I think a third remain. Ancestry have a list that links you to the medal entitlement archived at the National Archives. Both Ancestry and findmy past have some service records. The Great War Forum are very helpful too.
     
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  3. Pat Atkins

    Pat Atkins Well-Known Member

    Ancestry have soldiers' medal index cards (MICs) which show medal entitlement; also medal rolls records which sometimes give additional details. Also records of soldiers' effects (monies payable to their beneficiaries, e.g. war gratuity).

    National Army Museum may have your soldier's paybook will if it survives.

    GWF has an extraordinary breadth and depth of members' expertise, and I've found them very generous in their help - have a poke around the site before you post, though, to get a feel for the conventions as they're (very occasionally) a little less tolerant than this place. Also try The Long Long Trail website for info about the Great War and advice re researching its soldiers.

    As amberdog45 says, post details here and someone will probably be able to help in some way.

    Cheers, Pat
     
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  4. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    tmac

    If you as advised post his details, I can look him up on Ancestry and see what there is for him. I have done this for my Great Uncle and other members.

    There is no guarantee that the records are there, but if they are we should be able to find them for you

    Either post the details here or PM to me

    TD
     
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  5. tmac

    tmac Senior Member

    Thanks everyone, for your helpful replies. That's a very kind offer, Tricky Dicky. These are the details ...

    Lance Corporal JOHN PEARCE
    Enlisted: Warrington
    Service number 201288
    1st/4th Battalion South Lancashire Regiment
    Brigade Pioneers, 55th Division
    Died of wounds March 14, 1917
    Buried at Lijssenthoek Military Cemetery, Belgium
     
  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi tmac

    As I find details I will continue to post them on this thread, I am saying that in case you assume whatever I post here is all that I could find.

    John Pearce in the UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929
    Name: John Pearce
    Gender: Male
    Death Date: 14 Mar 1917
    Death Place: France or Belgium
    Rank: Lance Corporal (Unpaid)
    Regiment: Prince of Wales's Volunteers (South Lancashire) Regiment
    Regimental Number: 201288
    42511_6117462_0092-00146.jpg

    John Pearce in the UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919
    Name: John Pearce
    Birth Place: Warrington, Lancs
    Death Date: 14 Mar 1917
    Death Place: France and Flanders
    Enlistment Place: Warrington
    Rank: L Corporal
    Regiment: Prince of Wales's Volunteers (South Lancashire) Regiment
    Battalion: 1st 4th Battalion
    Regimental Number: 201288
    Type of Casualty: Died of wounds
    Theatre of War: Western European Theatre


    John Pearce in the British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920

    Name: John Pearce
    Regiment or Corps: 1/4 S Lan Regt
    Regimental Number: 3230, 201288
    30850_A001214-01662.jpg



    tmac
    For his service records (if they are not in the 'burnt' bin) and his pension records can you let me know his date of birth and any other names he may have had, to help in narrowing down the search

    TD

    edited to: Even his fathers name and potential address might help.
     
  7. graeme

    graeme Senior Member

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  8. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Er.... TD.....
    PEARCE, J. Rank: Lance Corporal. Service No: 201288. Date of Death: 14/03/1917.
    Regiment/Service: South Lancashire Regiment 1st/4th Bn.
    Grave Reference: XI. B. 33. Cemetery: LIJSSENTHOEK MILITARY CEMETERY.
    Died of Wounds. Entered France 6 August 1915 thus entitled to 1915 Star, as 3230 and British War and Victory medals as 201288.

    Name: John Pearce. Regiment or Corps: 1/4 S Lan Regt. Regimental Numbers: 3230, then 201288.

    Name: John Pearce. Birth Place: Warrington, Lancs. Death Date: 14 Mar 1917. Enlistment Place: Warrington.
    Rank: L Corporal. Prince of Wales's Volunteers (South Lancashire) Regiment. 1st 4th Battalion
    Regimental Number: 201288. Type of Casualty: Died of wounds.

    Name: John Pearce. Age in 1911: 25. Birth year: abt 1886. Birth Place: Warrington, Lancashire
    Street address: 1 Aydens Yard. Occupation: Wire Cleaner Wire Worker
    John Pearce, 25; Martha Pearce, 22; Elizabeth Pearce, 1
    Private 10654 6th Bn South Lancashire
    Living at St Johns, Warrington, a labourer, aged 28 years on 18th August 1914 but discharge para 392 iii (c) (being medically unfit and unlikely to become an efficient soldier) on 8th October after 52 days. Wife Martha, 4 Gandy's Rd, Warrington. Sallow complexion, grey eyes, black hair.

    Then ...
    Treated at Scotland General Hospital, Aberdeen for gunshot wound to the scalp on 24 August 1915 for 29 days until 21 September 1915.
    Bullet removed on vertex ? at Dressing Station in Gallipoli on day of wounding 10 August .Wound healed but patient complains of giddiness from opening left eye. X Ray 283 shows no injury to bones of skull, no FB? Capt Souther? reported that amblyopia ? left eye was due to high myopia unconnected with injury.

    The South Lancs Records Office, Shrewsbury then query 10654 J Pearce as their records show he was discharged yet he has rejoined from Sick Furlough in Daily Order No 235 dated 2 October 1915, and they hold his Discharge Papers... Please explain they demand!
    The reply is simply to change his Service Number!

    There are Census Records for 1891 and 1901 showing parents John and May and a large brood including boys Alfred (eldest) Joseph and Ernest.
    As no Final Verification Form was completed for John, it doesn't show age or any Additional Information. Possibly Martha had remarried, what with a young child, although no child is mentioned on his Enlistment Form (which seems to say he'd already had 4 years service (when, obviously between Census Years!)

    I haven't found any CWGC that is obviously any brother and I believe Ernest died in the 60's still in Warrington....

    Hope you don't mind this extra!

    EDIT: I see from the Soldiers Effects that widow Martha had a daughter Emily, so that may explain absence of Elizabeth in 1914 if she'd died before he enlisted... almost as soon as War declared.

    He may be the "J Smith" with no details on the Warrington War Memorial http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=205827

    He may also be the J Smith (Fuel) on this Memorial, but there were other J Smiths...
    http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Lancashire/WarringtonCrossfields.html on the main Memorial...
     
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  9. tmac

    tmac Senior Member

    To Tricky Dicky, amberdog45, Pat Atkins, Graeme, Kevin Battle …

    Thanks to you all for a marvellous response to my initial posting.
    From Kevin’s information, John Pearce obviously had a tangled and rather mysterious military career.
    He apparently enlisted soon after war was declared in 1914, but was discharged after 54 days.
    He possibly had four years military service prior to the war.
    Despite his 1914 discharge, he somehow ended up in Gallipoli in 1915, where he was wounded. Then in 1917 he was in France, where he was killed.
    I’m a bit baffled about him possibly being 'J Smith' on the Warrington war memorial.
    I have no personal connection to John Pearce, but he was the grandfather of someone I know.
    This chap is hoping to visit the grave in Belgium and also wants to find out if his grandfather’s medals were ever claimed by his family.
    He will be absolutely thrilled to see this information about his grandfather and the images of the original Army documents. When I next see him, I will try to get some more personal details about John Pearce to hopefully clarify matters.
    Thanks once again,

    Tom
     
  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Kevin

    Thanks for all that - was just taking a break to eat my tea :P

    Saved me some time there though

    I hope with some further info and luck I will find his actual service record (or records based on the latest info)

    TD
     
  11. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Ooops! Sorry, also working on a J Smith and confused who was what.... but there is a J PEARCE on that panel on the Warrington War Memorial....
    Obviously disregards the Works War Memorial ref, no Pearce on there.

    No real mystery, except how when supposedly discharged on medical grounds as unfit for soldiering (and no mention on his medical exam of any problem) he still managed to complete basic training and be posted with his unit to Gallipoli. He obviously wasn't going to let a small thing like a medical problem stop him doing his duty. I may be a novice at medical terminology, but perhaps they were hinting that an eye problem existed before the War? Perhaps that was the reason to try and discharge him? In humans, the vertex is formed by four bones of the skull: the frontal bone, the two parietal bones, and the occipital bone.

    Hence the surprise in the Records Office when this "discharged" soldier returns from sick leave. Presumably 3230 was then allocated to him, to avoid the issue of his 10654 discharge! The (pre existing?) medical condition plus the head wound may be the reason for him being transferred to the Pioneers Battalion, as possibly unfit for Front line service but still able to dig, fetch and carry....

    Martha remarried in 1920 to James Worsley and died 1st Qtr 1941 (no CWGC entry, so presume natural causes.)
    There was the one daughter, Elizabeth who lived until 1991, so must have misread her name on the Soldiers Effects info....

    Neither seem to have moved out of Warrington

    Using the National Archives link (or perhaps Ancestry) it should be possible to access the War Diary for 10 August when John was wounded in the head... sounds like a shrapnel ball) as the 6th Battalion suffered heavy casualties in early August, almost 130 on 9/10 August alone. Allowing for Gallipoli having a higher percentage of dead to wounded must have meant the 6th was pretty much decimated before the end of August, such was the ferocity of the fighting.

    6th (Service) Battalion (Long, Long Trail)
    Formed at Warrington in August 1914 as part of K1 and moved to Tidworth, under command of 38th Brigade in 13th (Western) Division. Moved to billets in Winchester in January 1915 before going next month to Blackdown.
    Sailed from Avonmouth in June 1915. Landed at Cape Helles (Gallipoli) 7-31 July then moved to Mudros. Landed at Anzac Beach 4 August 1915.

    These men must have enlisted the same day

    BRIDGEN, JOHN. Rank: Private. Service No: 10651. Date of Death: 22/07/1917. Age: 32.
    Regiment/Service: South Lancashire Regiment 6th Bn.
    Grave Reference: O. CE. 932. Cemetery: WARRINGTON CEMETERY.
    Additional Information: Son of James and Elizabeth Bridgen.

    YATES, T. Rank: Private. Service No: 10658. Date of Death: 10/11/1915. Age: 32.
    Regiment/Service: South Lancashire Regiment 6th Bn.
    Grave Reference: I. B. 24. Cemetery: GREEN HILL CEMETERY.
    Additional Information: Son of Robert and Mary Ann Yates, of 21, Wellington St., Widnes.

    Martha's maiden surname was Lightfoot and her parents were James and Alice, so these are not her brothers, but they were probably known to Martha and John....

    LIGHTFOOT, ALBERT. Rank: Private. Service No: 1620. Date of Death: 16/06/1915. Age: 21.
    Regiment/Service: South Lancashire Regiment 1st/4th Bn.
    Panel Reference: Panel 37. Memorial:YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL.
    Additional Information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. Enoch Lightfoot, of 58, Winwick St., Warrington.

    LIGHTFOOT, THOMAS HENRY. Rank: Private. Service No: 68907. Date of Death: 18/10/1918. Age: 35.
    Regiment/Service: Machine Gun Corps
    Grave Reference: North.18. 20. Cemetery: TARVIN (ST. ANDREW) CHURCHYARD.
    Additional Information: Son of Thomas Lightfoot; husband of Ada Lightfoot, of Ivy Bank, Norley, Warrington. Born at Kelsall.



    Anyway, hope you enjoyed your break for meals!
     
  12. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Well done to all. :salut:
     
  13. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Well I am a little confused here

    John Pearce medal card shows 2 service numbers 3230 and 201288

    We then have another service number 10654

    I have found Pension records for 10654 but I am not sure they tally with the others - I think I would like to know further info from tmac's contact before going deeper into this.

    I know my Great Uncle had 2 service numbers.

    TD
     
  14. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Ok

    Checking family trees the John Pearce with records attached for service numbers 3320 and 201288 gives the initial details as:



    John Pearce

    Birth: ABT Dec 1888 (Dec 1888) - Lancashire, England
    Death: 14 Mar 1917 - France
    Marriage: 3 Jul 1910 - Bispham, Lancashire, England
    Spouse: Susannah Hanson

    The other John Pearce (service number 10654) is shown as ;


    John Pearce
    Birth About 1885 in Warrington, Cheshire, England
    Death 14 Mar 1917 in British Field Hospital, Lijssenthoek
    Married to a Martha Lightfoot


    Lets hope tmac can help resolve the differences
    TD
     
  15. tmac

    tmac Senior Member

    KevinBattle and Tricky Dicky ..

    Thanks for this latest instalment - I really appreciate it. I thought gathering such information would take weeks or months, and was ready for a long slog.

    Kevin's excellent reconstruction of how John Pearce's military career probably developed means it's all beginning to make some sense.

    I may see his grandson tomorrow and hopefully get a few more answers. I'll post anything that might be of help.

    In the meantime, I've found the war diary of No 3 Canadian Casualty Clearing Station, where John Pearce died - and they have recorded his date of death as March 13, 1917 (see attached), not March 14 as on the official records.

    Just one more thing: Was there a campaign medal for Gallipoli and would he have been entitled to it?
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    tmac

    I think first we need to find the right John Pearce, there seems to be 2 - see post 14

    I'm not disputing Kevins info just need my own peace of mind that we have the right man and service number(s)

    TD

    edited to add:
    I note that the Hospital have used his first service number 3230 - seems odd in 1917 that presumably he was still wearing his old number????
     
  17. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Agree TD, let's see if tmac's contact can clarify who John married before going much further, if at all possible.
    10654 does seem to match with 1911 Census.
    Being discharged after 52 days service as medically unfit does pose a question as did the records Office of "How? was that possible?"!!!
    2 men with the same Name may be the answer!
     
  18. tmac

    tmac Senior Member

    Just one final thing. Is there any way of knowing if John Pearce’s wife Martha Lightfoot was related to Thomas Henry Lightfoot, who probably enlisted the same day as John?


    John Pearce
    Birth About 1885 in Warrington, Cheshire, England
    Death 14 Mar 1917 in British Field Hospital, Lijssenthoek
    Married to a Martha Lightfoot


    LIGHTFOOT, THOMAS HENRY. Rank: Private. Service No: 68907. Date of Death: 18/10/1918. Age: 35.
    Regiment/Service: Machine Gun Corps
    Grave Reference: North.18. 20. Cemetery: TARVIN (ST. ANDREW) CHURCHYARD.
    Additional Information: Son of Thomas Lightfoot; husband of Ada Lightfoot, of Ivy Bank, Norley, Warrington. Born at Kelsall.
     
  19. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Martha parents were

    James Lightfoot and Alice Allen

    Thomas parents were

    Thomas Lightfoot and Ann Walker

    TD
     
  20. Pat Atkins

    Pat Atkins Well-Known Member

    Am no medals expert, so forgive any inaccuracies! But broadly speaking:

    There was no campaign medal for Gallipoli, not for any other geographically-specific campaigns I think, although the so-called "Mons Star" was awarded for those who served in France and Belgium (the only land theatre of war at that time) before between 5th August and 22nd November 1914 and there was a clasp for those under fire between those dates, to differentiate the men up the sharp end. This was probably seen as an important distinction at the time, as the BEF was still composed of mostly Regular soldiers who were used to a campaign medal/clasp system of acknowledgement of service. After that, as territorial and conscripted troops became the (vast) majority, I suppose there wasn't such a focus on Regular Army ways. By the end of November 1914 there were precious few Old Contemptibles left on active service, a testament to the enormous casualties of the first months of the war.

    John Pearce qualified for the 1914-15 Star which was very similar in appearance to the 1914 Star, but without a clasp; men who served overseas up to 31st December 1915 were entitled to wear this campaign medal. The date was set to exclude men conscripted into the armed forces, so the medal differentiates between a volunteer and a conscript, I believe (although it can't distinguish between the two after the introduction of conscription I guess). All who served for a certain length of time in the war qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal

    Cheers, Pat
     

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