Wives and Children

Discussion in 'Postwar' started by grob, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. grob

    grob New Member

    I would be grateful if anyone can help me with a couple of questions.

    My Grandfather's ( a Sgt the Queens Bays) Military records show that his wife and 2x children travelled with the CMF (Central Mediterranean Force) care of the Queens Bays arriving on 2nd Jan 1947 and returning home to the UK 11 Feb 1947.

    I remember my late mother telling me that she was told she went to Palestine and they had to return unexpectedly when the troubles started.

    I have two questions:-

    1. How normal was it to have your family with you on operations so soon after the War.
    2. Where can I find more info on the Queens Bays in Palestine at this time.

    Regards

    Gareth
     
  2. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

  3. grob

    grob New Member

    Thanks, How do you access these files, I can't see any links on the page you posted, do you have to go to Richmond?

    Gareth
     
  4. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Gareth

    Several members on here provide a service of copying files from TNA Kew at 10% of the price that Kew will quote. Also if you Google search for 'Queens Bays in Palestine' it does provide some general information about what was going on there at the time you are looking for. It depends on how much detail you need.

    If you have not already then applying for his service records is the normal place to start - https://www.gov.uk/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records#how-to-apply-for-service-personnel-records

    TD
     
  5. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Hi Gareth,

    I can't find any evidence that the Queens Bays were posted as a unit to Palestine after the war. Do you have your Grandfather's service records, perhaps he transferred to another unit which was not uncommon. I'm not sure what the Army policy was on bringing over family at the time. There are a number of British Pathe videos some of which are silent off-cut compilations of the evacuation on YouTube. Here's an example of one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMf-kZBrrcg

    You have to wonder how many shown there are families of British governmental administrators in Palestine at the time rather than military ones.

    Others in this YouTube search:

    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_query=British+families+Evacuate+Palestine+1947&search_sort=relevance&search_category=0&page=

    Regards ...
     
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  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Their war diaries appear to stop in Italy during 1946
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Cheers - I can't find anything diary wise.
     
  9. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    TD,

    That write up is a bit confusing. They are actually giving details of two units, the 1st King's Dragoon Guards (KDG) and The Queens Bays (also known as 2nd Dragoon Guards). Both these regiments were amalgamated in 1958 to form 1st The Queen's Dragoon Guards. If you read carefully just after the information you gave on the KDG it states, " After the war the Bays remained in Northern Italy, then moved to Egypt before returning to Britain in 1947." They were close but I can't find any evidence they went into Palestine during this period.

    Regards ...
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Send forum member BFBSM a message - He's got a lot of stuff on the regiment.
     
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  11. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    I suspect The Bays were intended to go into Palestine but with the rapidly deteriorating situation there it was called off and they were sent home. So it's probably just a nitpick on my part ... :eek:
     
  12. grob

    grob New Member

    Cee, Drew and Tricky Dicky,

    Thanks for your great responses, I do have my Grandfathers War records in fact that is where some of the information came from, although it does not mention Palestine only CMF.
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Gareth,

    That's truly cryptic - most of the acronyms/abbreviations defeat me. It looks like he was in England (Home) to mid July 1946 engaged in some kind of training and was then posted to The Bays wherever they were in the Mediterranean area. His family arrives on the 2nd of January 1947 and are sent home on the 10th of February. I get the impression he returns with them? Sorry not much help there.

    Regards ...

    Edit: February
     
  14. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Gareth,

    Here' a more extensive account (last two paragraphs) of the movements of the Queen's Bays during the period 1945 - 1947. According to that they sailed for Egypt in June of 1947 where they under went the process of disbandment and reassigning men to other units before returning to England in late November of 1947.

    http://www.qdg.org.uk/pages/WW2-Part-8-114.php

    To confuse the issue if you carefully read this man's account it would appear the Bays arrived in Egypt earlier than June of 1947. There is a possibility he has his dates mixed up?

    http://www.paradata.org.uk/articles/account-trooper-dale-glossop

    Regards ...
     
  15. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Courtesy of Lee's search engine, this is the last war diary for Bays, 1946.
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C967271

    The blurb states Jan - June, I'd check this out though, as some of the diaries I have had copied did not correspond to the months stated in the description. Even if it does end in Jun '46, there might still be some explanation in appendices in particular as to their future movements.

    From the first entry of the second page posted, it looks like "Surplus to WE" (War Establishment).

    There is nothing that I can find either under series WO 216 for the Bays
    This is an example of Quarterly Historical Reports - post war Diary - for 1IG. Theatre is under ME, not CMF, as per "ditto" entries in service record. (Just noting - they embarked UK in Feb '47, disembarked Egypt in March, & travelled by train to Palestine a few days later.)
     
  16. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member Patron

    The Bays War Diary ends in June 1946 with the Regiment conducting training in Palmanova, the appendices do not add any information regarding a possible move to Palestine nor on the actual move to Egypt.

    I can also find no information with regards to The Bays going to Palestine after their return to England, and the Dale Barracks, Chester in 1947.

    I shall keep working through information I have and report my findings.

    Mark
     
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  17. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Gareth,

    I don't know what to make of the service records. Taken literally the wife and children arrived in Italy (CMF) where they stayed until returning home. It could be the clerk glossed over the details of the Palestine episode or was unaware of all that occurred? Here's a site devoted to Operation Polly:

    http://www.landofbrokenpromises.co.uk/palestine/OpPolly/Index.html

    Regards ...
     
  18. Clive Wiley

    Clive Wiley Member

    My Dad was in the Bays from 1935-1938, he said that they were going to Palestine and that their swords were taken to the Armory to be sharpend, but then it was cancelled .Dad is on the second from the left at he back. im not sure if this is taken in Aldershot or Tidworth.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    What a wonderful picture Clive, thanks for sharing ... :)

    Regards ...
     
  20. Clive Wiley

    Clive Wiley Member

    Thank you im pleased that you like it, I would love to know who the other lads are. My uncle in in the middle .This is another one . I really should do it a post. Never see much about the Bay's.
     

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