Wormhout Massacre Victims-CWGC Dates of death?

Discussion in '1940' started by Mark Hone, May 1, 2010.

  1. Mark Hone

    Mark Hone Senior Member

    During my October 2010 School battlefields' tour I shall be visiting the site of the Wormhout Massacre and Esquelbecq Cemetery. I notice on the CWGC database that Sergeant Stanley Moore and CSM Augustus Jennings who died in the massacre on 28th May, throwing themselves onto German grenades to shield their comrades, are still recorded only with approximate dates of death, in Moore's case the wrong approximate dates. I pointed this out to the CWGC some years ago, and was told that they knew about this and would correct it in due course. I fully appreciate that the Commission has far more urgent tasks, but does anyone know if the dates on the Special Memorials to these two gallant NCOs have yet been amended?
     
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    There's quite a few mistakes regarding Date of Deaths at Wormhout. Another chap who was definately fighting in the battle before the massacre (Name escapes me at the mo) is recorded as dying the day before the fighting started. I doubt they will be changed until the the headstones need replacing. Another chap I know according to witness accounts was killed in the battle and is recorded on CWGC as being in Belgium, which by the end of the month is most unlikely. I gave up trying to explain it to them after an hour on the phone, I think they fault I was talking out of my hoop.

    Not sure what the 'Special Memorials' are though?

    Have you seen this thread from my last trip?

    The Battle and Massacre at Wormhout

    A few refreshes normally loads up the pictures that fail first time.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  3. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    Mark I expect Drew will be able to help you out on this as its his area of intrest.................and is if by magic up he pops:D
     
  4. Mark Hone

    Mark Hone Senior Member

    Drew, thanks for the info and link to your fantastic photos and account. Special Memorials are standard CWGC headstones which commemorate men who were originally buried in a cemetery, or nearby, but whose graves were later lost. They are usually placed, in my experience, on the edge of the CWGC Cemetery, often accompanied by a stone bearing the legend 'Their Glory Shall Not Be Blotted Out', chosen by Kipling. However, it's clear from your sequence of photos that at Escquelbecq they are simply included in a normal row with the words 'Buried near this spot' at the top of each stone. In the CWGC database this is recorded as : Sp. Mem. 3. F. 9-16. Although we paid a memorable visit to the scene of the massacre (in torrential rain) on my 2000 school tour, before the replica barn was constructed and the future of the site was still in doubt, we didn't visit the cemetery.
     
  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Ah, I see what you mean now. I always think of them as a mass grave, as technically that is what it is.

    Here's one taken in Feb 2010 which confirms your query.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Bare in mind those in Esquelbecq are in the main from the massacre and there is a considerable amount in Wormhout (I always think they get overlooked) from the heroic fighting that took place prior to the massacre.

    I've managed to tell the story of some of the men in both cemeteries.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  7. Mark Hone

    Mark Hone Senior Member

    Thanks again. As you say, we shall have to wait until the next routine replacement of the stones for the correct dates to be inserted. I seem to recall from my brief correspondence with the Commission that they accepted from the detailed eyewitness acounts that Jennings, Moore and others quite clearly died on 28th May.
    Incidentally Andy, what is the coach access position of both the massacre site and Escquelbecq Cemetery? In 2000 we got pretty close to the scene of the massacre, but I can't remember how the coach turned round.
     
  8. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Mark

    Esquelbecq Military Cemetery is one kilometre west of the village and is on a country lane with enough room for 2 cars to pass going in opposite directions.

    Here is a photo of it.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Mark Hone

    Mark Hone Senior Member

    Thanks very much.
     
  10. Mark Hone

    Mark Hone Senior Member

    Andy,,
    By an amazing coincidence on a visit to the Midlands this weekend I found myself chatting to the cousin of Gunner Ronald Ashley, 69 (Denbighshire Yeomanry) Medium Regiment, who was killed on 28th May and is buried at Wormhout Communal Cemetery. I couldn't find mention of him in your excellent series of posts and photographs (I may have missed it). Ashley lived in Llandudno but was originally from Birmingham, like many of the 2nd Royal Warwicks men. His cousin, who has visited the grave, believes that he died in the massacre itself, rather than the defence of Wormhout.
     
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Mark,

    Not familiar with the name but some of the 69th were at Wormhout. They were passing through (Three vehicles I believe) when they were effectively ambushed/ caught up in the fighting.

    What I can say for certain is that the men killed in the fighting in and around Wormhout are buried in the Wormhout Cemetery and those that were murdered are buried (The ones that were found) in Esquelbecq. The reason being-The massacre was committed in another parish/council (Not familiar with the official French term).

    I've got one or possibly two witness statements from survivors of the 69th RA that state what happened to them when they reached Wormhout on 28th May. Let me know if you want me to have a trawl through them for you.

    CWGC :: Certificate :poppy:

    For some reason I don't have a picture of his grave on my PC. Ramacal will have one though.

    Regards
    Andy
     
  12. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Andy/Mark

    Photo as requested for:-

    Name: ASHLEY, RONALD JOHN
    Rank: Gunner
    Regiment/Service: Royal Artillery
    Unit Text: 69 (The Denbighshire Yeomanry) Medium Regt.
    Age: 25
    Date of Death: 28/05/1940
    Service No: 888254
    Additional information: Son of John Thomas Ashley and Ada Ashley; husband of Marguerite Lily Ashley, of Llanduduo, Caernarvonshire.
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Row F. Grave 9.
    Cemetery: WORMHOUDT COMMUNAL CEMETERY

    The other man is:-

    Name: TURNER, JAMES
    Rank: Gunner
    Regiment/Service: Royal Artillery
    Unit Text: 69 (The Denbighshire Yeomanry) Medium Regt.
    Date of Death: 28/05/1940
    Service No: 875390
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Row F. Grave 8.
    CEMETERY: WORMHOUDT COMMUNAL CEMETERY


    [​IMG]
     
  13. Mark Hone

    Mark Hone Senior Member

    Rob, thanks very much. Andy, I'd be very intersted in any further info you have. I've promised the chap I met, also named Ashley, who is the curator of the small but interesting local museum at Shipston-on-Stour in Warwickshire that I'll lay a poppy cross at the grave when I visit with the lads in October.
     

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