WW2: BEF retreating from Louvain and Brussels (May 1940)

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Posted Today, 11:38 AM

Hi All!



I would like to identify a british outfit (of the BEF in Belgium, around the 18th and 19th May 1940) who cared for a belgian officer who eventually died in a british ambulance in Zuydcote on the 30th during Operation Dynamo?

That officer was Lt Remacle COEURDEROY, from the 3d Rgt Chasseurs Ardennais, 10th Company.
He was wounded in a friendly fire incident with british troops retreating from Louvain and Brussels.

He had been sent by his CO to try to liaise with the neighbouring british unit "on the road, direction Kede-Aygem to Herzele"
When coming in sight of the first british troops (aboard a motorbike with a side-car ) he was fired upon (with an antit-tank Boys rifle) when mis-identified with a german motor recce unit.

The british troops were said to be very sorry , and cared for the wouded belgian officer. The belgian lost contact with him, and heard about his death in June 1942 only! (see his CO's report in the attached document - if somebody wants an English translation, I will post it on demand -see my email hereunder)

I wonder if traces of this incident and the subsequent fate of the ambulance until Zuycote is known?
Wher could onee finds this incident related in one British Unit diary or log book?
I "suspect" his death was in fact "registered" by the germans when inspecting the bounty on the Dunkirk' beaches.

Hubbar49
bart.mullier@gmail.com




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A fascinating document, Bart. Have you been able to determine exactly where the incident took place ? With an accurate map and taking into account the date, it may just be possible to arrive at which British unit was involved. However, so many diaries were lost and re-written later that there may be no mention.

Trying to pin down the ambulance is going to be very difficult indeed.

 

As Rich says-You have a good chance of finding out the unit but next to no chance on the ambulance.

Cheers
Andy

 

Ok, as the CO said on his letter: they were ordered to follow the direstion Aiigem-Herzele.
I add a map, showing Herzele on the left (I suppose that was the left wing of the retreating BEF'Units?) if they had to liaise with them?
As I am not unable to add the map, I put the link to load it from our site

http://genealogie.marche.be/kg/Herzele01.jpg

Is it possible to know the Unit keeping their position there? Then, how to read their unit war diaries?


On the other hand, i take for granted that the anti-tank device used was a Boys rifle, as the bullet stopped in the tool box at the back of the Side Car. Had it been from an anti-tank (either the french SA34 25 MM or a british gun, the bullet would have either exploded or gone trough?)

 

Could somebody point me on a general (british) map showing the deployment of the Army Units of the BEF on the morning of the 19th May?

hubbar49

 

Just a thought to help narrow it down are there any CWGC cemeteries near where this incident took place? BEF Casualties killed on the same day may help ID the unit. I can then look in the war diary for you to see if there is a mention.

A quick glance at divisional positions on the 19th/20th of May show most of the infantry units in defensive positions along the Escaut.

 

Bart, the position behind Ressegem doesn't seem likely to have been a planned defensive line, but merely a pause between the Dender and the Schelde. As such, there is unlikely to be a published map showing units positioned there. By the time that the British were holding the line of the Schelde on the 21st, 44th Division were behind the river south of Oudenarde with 4th Division below them.

My suspicions for Herzele fall upon battalions from II Corps. 44th Division were positioned earlier on the Schelde as a fall-back line

There are a couple of older threads on this forum which may give some clues but there is going to be quite a lot of work to find exact locations.

We have mention of 2 Corps HQ in Denderhoutem. - http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/45904-british-unit-early-days-of-mai-1940-belgium/?hl=denderhoutem

but also of 2 Lincolns of 3rd Division withdrawing through Ninove. http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/22137-war-grave-belgium-joseph-fail-2-lincolnshire-denderwindeke-communal-cemetery/?hl=denderhoutem#entry269553

II Corps comprised two divisions who had been on the Dijl - 3rd and 4th Infantry Divisions - each had three brigades and nine battalions so there is quite a lot of work to do, but the information may well be out there...

 

Hi Rich!

Thanks for the tips!

But I have no clues how to find and read those diaries...

Here under is a link to the pge I prepared and showed to the family of Lt Coeurderoy (the cousins of my late mother in law)

They were very well interested, as the family tale was that he was killed by the british, not knowing how and why

http://genealogie.marche.be/kg/devmem/coeurderoyremaclex.htm

If somebody could point me to the right documentation (Map, diary or veteran's say)

,
Bart

 

Bart, the British war diaries are located in the National Archive at Kew. Unfortunately, they are not yet available on-line.

I've looked at British war graves local to Herzele in the hope that they may provide clues. There is a Fusilier from 4th Royal Northumberland Fusiliers in Sint-Lievens-Esse but they were a motorcycle unit dealing with traffic control during the retreat. There are two graves from 4th Battalion Royal Berkshire Regiment in Mere. 4th R. Berks were in 3rd Division's 8th Infantry Brigade - 2nd Lincolns whom I mentioned earlier were in 9th Brigade so suspicion falls upon 3rd Division. I'll look at my sources again, but I don't have any immediate plans to spend time at Kew in the near future.

 

Tell me the unit and the date and I'll post up the WD page mate.

 

Andy, is it asking too much to try all of 8 and 9 Inf. Bdes for 18/19 May ? My suspicion falls more on the 18th.

They would be :-
1 Suffolks
2 East Yorks
4 R. Berks

2 Lincs.
1 KOSB
2 R. Ulster Rifles

and maybe 8 Inf. Bde and 9 Inf. Bde Atk. Companies too...although the reports seem to suggest a smaller projectile than even a 25mm anti-tank gun.

Cheers

 

1 Suffolks

 

2 East Yorks

 

4 Royal Berks

 

8 Infantry Brigade HQ

 

2 Lincs

 

1 KOSB

 

2 RUR

 

9 Infantry Brigade HQ

 

No 8th or 9th Brigade AT Company diaries covering May 1940.