ww2 British Vehicle Markings

Discussion in 'Vehicle Names and Census Numbers' started by morrisc8, Jan 9, 2021.

  1. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    jeep RN Dec 1945 UK. 46147RN jpg close up.jpg Original Photos from my collection. Photo 1. RN Jeep Dec 1945. Photo 2 BEF 1939. Photo 3 MC Egypt ?.
    Keith
    jeep RN Dec 1945 UK.jpg bikes humber.jpg Army bike tilly.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
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  2. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    Original Photos from my collection. Photo 1 and 2 . Shot up Morris trucks BEF 1940.
    Keith
    morris 1940.jpg morris aos 23 bef (2018_01_13 18_51_57 UTC).jpg
     
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  3. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    The US made a cammo booklet as well in 1942. from my collection. Never seen a jeep painted like that.
    Keith
    cammo USA 1942.jpg US Army manual FM 5-21 1942 jeep cammo  Bantam.jpg
     
  4. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    Vehicle Markings India 1945 and the CMF RASC hardback book i had printed came in the post today.
    Keith
    veh signs books.JPG rasc veh signs.JPG rasc veh signs book.JPG veh markings india.JPG
     
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  5. Excellent!

    In Vehicle Markings India 1945, is 387 Coy RASC featured? When they were equipped with DUKWs, they had yet another version of the Duck marking whose colours I am curious to know. See for example IWM SE1554:
    [​IMG]
    THE BRITISH ARMY IN BURMA 1945. © IWM (SE 1554)


    Michel
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
  6. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    Hi Michel,

    I was curious about the census number? 330952. This falls in 258957 - 340999 not taken up.

    Cheers

    Kevin
     
  7. Hello Kevin,

    Yes, all the Burma Ducks in photos and films seem to have census numbers in the 330xxx series. Also curiously, they do not have a prefix (which should be P for amphibians).

    They all belong to 387 Coy (Amphibian) RASC and apparently all had names prefixed with HMA (presumably His Majesty's Amphibian) and starting with the Platoon letter. Some are mentioned in captions of IWM films (regrettably not online):
    HMA AGGRESSOR (film MWY 68)
    HMA APACHE (JFU 10)
    HMA BULLDOG & HMA BURSLEM (MWY 235)
    HMA BUTCHER 330443 & HMA GARWELL? 330693 (more likely BARWELL) (JFU 232)

    Plus this one which I read as HMA AURORA? 330947 (BP 1145.06):
    1145_06_191 DUKW 330947 AoS 73 - Burma.jpg
    The formation sign is 33 (Indian) Corps. See for example IWM INS 4072:
    INS 4072 - 33 Indian Corps.jpg

    Michel

    [Edit: added links to the various films or captions]
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  8. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    Hi Michel,

    Brilliant find thank you.

    I think you are right t is BARWELL (translates as stream of the Boar), which is a place in Leicestershire. The stream (brook) is now a tributary of the River Trent. BURSLEM ( part of Stoke on Trent ) is a town on the Fowlea which is also a tributary of the river Trent. These two names keeping watery connections by the look of things.
    Shame about the films on being online.

    Cheers

    Kevin.
     
  9. morrisc8

    morrisc8 Under the Bed

    Sorry no
     
  10. Thank for your reply. I was afraid so. But the colours may be inferred from the other Duck signs as being a white (obviously) duck with yellow (also obviously) feet and beak over a black (?) background. A slightly more contrasted, if smaller, view of the sign from IWM photo SE2288:
    SE2288 - Duck sign.jpg

    This DUKW might be HMA BUTCHER 330443 mentioned in film JFU 232...

    Michel
     
  11. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    Hi Michel,

    Did a quick search but didn't find anymore named DUKW's in Burma.
    But found this PREFABRICATED PORTS; MULBERRY PORTS. JUNE 1944, OFF ARROMANCHES. THE ARRIVAL OF THE PARTS OF THE MULBERRY PORT, THE SINKING OF THE BLOCK SHIPS TO FORM A PROTECTIVE BREAKWATER FOR THE PORT, AND THE SINKING OF THE "PHOENIXES" AND "WHALES" THAT MAKE UP THE MULBERRY. in NWE.
    I cannot quite make out the first part but the second part is CANNONBALL ( I think ) although it could be CARNIVAL.

    Also so far Burma DUKW's don't seem to have a P prefix, those in Italy seem to use the L ( 3 ton Lorry ) prefix and those in NWE use the P ( Amphibian ) prefix.

    Cheers

    Kevin
     
  12. Yes, this is a US DUKW "salvaged" by the MULBERRY Harbour Master's team.

    I have the full name somewhere, but I do not know if this duck qualifies for your list of British (or Commonwealth) vehicle names, unless it is interpreted as "in British use" :D

    Michel
     
  13. Mary Cole

    Mary Cole Member


    My father served with 387 Coy amphibious dukw’s. The photo is of them in the Chindwin river in late 1944 after they had help build the longest pontoon bridge of WW2, over 1000 ft long. They were actually 2 Division when formed and were dismounted for the battles of Kohima and Imphal. It wasn’t until 12th December 44 when they came under command of 33 Corps and therefore carried the 33 Corps signage. The 73 on the side was actually green and red, an anomaly for WW2 and they reverted back to the yellow, blue and white post war. 387 Coy won 1 military cross and 5 military medals in one day for their bravery in crossing the Irrawaddy river under sustained and accurate enemy fire. Driver Harry Bryar was killed on 26th February due to a well imbedded Japanese machine gun position in the east bank of the river. They didn’t leave Burma when 2 Div infantry was withdrawn in April 45 and they went on to serve in Singapore and Hong Kong before being repatriated in mid 46. My father was brought home in November 45 having contracted tropical disease.
     
  14. As noted elsewhere, there are a couple of oddities in the AoS markings of 387 Coy DUKWs in Burma:

    1. AoS Serial 73 should indicate the third Infantry Brigade Company in an Infantry Division, whereas 387 Coy was the Divisional Troops Company in 2 British Infantry Division and therefore should have the Serial 72. Is it possible that 387 Coy wore the orthodox Serial 72 when in 2 Div and then changed for 73 when 387 Coy became an amphibious company as a component of 33 (Indian) Corps and used 33 Corps Formation Sign?

    2. The AoS Flash is of the early (and Canadian) style, i.e. divided diagonally top left to bottom right. According to Hodges, "Originally the mark was divided top left to bottom right, but after about 1940 the diagonal was reversed, although Red was always the uppermost colour."
    I wonder whether this format was limited to 387 Coy, possibly having retained the old format, or a peculiarity of RASC units in Indian or Far East formations, or perhaps indicated a non-British formation (in this case 33 Indian Corps, although 287 Coy was a British unit), similarly to the Canadian RCASC units?

    Michel
     
  15. Mary Cole

    Mary Cole Member

    upload_2021-3-21_16-36-51.jpeg
    Hi Kevin, my father was a DUKW driver with 387 Coy RASC, amphibious dukw’s in Burma. None of the dukw’s I’ve come across in my research show a letter before their identification number. Just the 73 (RASC) on this photo, the 33 Corps emblem (they were actually 2nd Division troops who came under 33 Corps command on 12th December 44) and then the name of the craft.
    Many also carried a cartoon picture of a duck just below the front window.

     
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  16. Mary Cole

    Mary Cole Member

    Hello, my father served with 387 Coy RASC, amphibious dukw’s in Burma and they were indeed part of the 2nd Division who relieved the siege at Kohima.
    They were then placed under command of 33 Corps on 12th December 44 for operations on the Chindwin river and then on the crossing of the Irrawaddy river in February 45 where they won 1 military cross and 5 military medals in one day for their bravery in crossing the Irrawaddy river under sustained and accurate enemy fire. The 73 denoted the RASC with the anomaly of the badge being green and red . I gather this returned to the blue/yellow/white flash post war, although many like my father wore the blue/yellow/white flash on their hats.


     
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  17. Mary,

    Thank you for posting this great photo of DUKW 330388 HMQ ABERDEEN, which therefore belonged to "A" Platoon. Do you have more photos that you would post here by any chance?

    It appears that the name was repeated below the windscreen:
    DUKW 330388 HMA ABERDEEN - Notes.jpeg

    On IWM SE1554 the name could be HMA BARBAR (which would fit well with HMA BUTCHER...):
    DUKW 330952 HMA BARBAR maybe - SE1554.jpg

    Regarding RASC colours, the Red/Green flash was not an anomaly: it was the official RASC Arm of Service flash for vehicles in WW2, becoming Blue/Yellow postwar. On the other hand, the RASC Arm of Service shoulder strip, introduced in 1940 and worn below the formation badge on the battledress blouse, was indeed Blue/Yellow (two inches long in total, one inch Blue and one inch Yellow). See this example (below 53 Div Formation Sign) here:
    RASC strip & 53 (W) Div - INS5446.jpg
    Source: badge, formation, 53rd (Welsh) Infantry Division

    I do not know about a third (White) colour on the RASC strip. That might be yet another oddity for 387 Coy or for India? Could you show us an example of it?

    Michel
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
  18. Mary Cole

    Mary Cole Member

    This is the same as seen in the side of their hats. Blue to the front I gather was the correct order and reflected the colours on the RASC flag. I’ve seen them in slouch hats.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Mary Cole

    Mary Cole Member

    Hi Michael, I do have a number if photos of dukw’s. Some are already on this site, but unfortunately, the names and numbers are not visible. The photo of Aberdeen was in March 45 at the crossing point 45 miles above Mandalay. 387 Coy were divided between this crossing, 2nd Division crossing point at Ngazun and, they supplied dukw’s to iv Corps crossing point near Pakokku, Bagan. I have the war diaries for both 44 and 45 and find them fascinating.

     
  20. Mary Cole

    Mary Cole Member

    upload_2021-3-21_20-31-34.jpeg

    My father taking a Grant tank across a river. Towed by dukw’s.
    upload_2021-3-21_20-32-41.jpeg

    The gentleman front right is Robert Paddick.(387 Coy). I’m in touch with his grandson who has a slouch hat with the three colours on the pagre.


    upload_2021-3-21_20-33-33.jpeg

    upload_2021-3-21_20-35-45.jpeg

    upload_2021-3-21_20-36-24.jpeg
     
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