1756867 John Wiliam McCARTHY, RA: Service Records

Hello my esteemed forum collegues.

I have just applied to get my Grandfathers service records.
While filling out the forms I have noticed there is a separate office for Guardsman.

My question is. I only have my grandfathers Maritime Regiment Number. Will these records I have allied for include any other service in the Coldstream. I must add he was in the Coldstream previous to his service in the 6th Maritime Regt.

Could anyone clarify if I need his Coldstream regt number as well.

Much appreciated

Greg

 

Hi and Welcome to the forum

Maritime Regiment as in Royal Artillery Maritime Regt?

It's my understanding thenumber you get when you join the Army stays with you for life. However if you change Service to RAF or Navy then it changes?

I would give manning and records a ring in Glasgow, I called them last week and they are very helpful and have loads of time for your questions.

Good luck with your search !
Andy

 

Thanks Owen and Drew,

Yes he was in the Royal Artillery section.

His number was 1756867 which puts him in the R.A section.

However, this doesnt fit with any of the Guardsman number blocks???

 

Give Glasgow a ring.....They are very helpful and should be able to clear your inquirey up over the phone.

Regards
Andy

 

ARMY SERVICE RECORDS



To find out more about your relative who served in World War 2, including original Enlistment Papers, detailing original Unit, Dates in all the theatres of the war he served in, and Number of Days, Medals awarded, Promotions, Demotions(!), Medical info, Training Qualifications, Hospitalisations, his Marriage, periods of Leave, etc., contact:

Army Personnel Centre,
Historical Disclosures,
Mail Point 555,
Kentigern House,
65 Brown Street,
Glasgow,
G2 8EX
Tel: 0845 600 9663

service records army

You need to have your relative's Name, DoB and/or Service number, and it costs £30 to obtain the Service Records.
You can download the application form from the above website.

 

I don't suppose the OP is still following this old thread but just in case a future Google search brings him back. The number quoted belongs to a gunner in the 5th Maritime Regt R.A. from November 1943. I have found him on a ship and can help you backtrack his service at sea if you wish. The military service record will probably not give that detail.
Cheers
Hugh

 

RA Attestation for 1756867 John William McCarthy:-

 

Hello Hugh,
Ive just found this thread again after a few years!!
I cant log in to my originsl account but Id love to discover more about my Grandad.
I know he was on SS Kent as a gunner but have zero documents

 

Thank you so much Tony!

 

RA tracer card for 1756867


https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discover...b263af88af&_phsrc=IFH4&_phstart=successSource

Coldstream Guards enlistment books & other records are on the findmypast website, which is free to use at most English county libraries.
British Army, Coldstream Guards 1800-1981 | findmypast.co.uk

 

Thanks! So it looks like he was in the H.A.A before going on the ships? Is that Heavy Air Artillery? He was from Limehouse East London so perhaps on Thames Battery?
I know he was in Scots Guards from 1923 not Coldstream my mistake.
I have so little except for scraps here

 

Hi Greg

HAA is Heavy Anti Aircraft. The T in brackets on his tracer card indicates he was in the Territorial Army, so could have served in a London Territorial RA Regiment, however it is more likely that after basic training he was posted wherever the army needed him. There were many HAA units & its possible from his card that he was UK based from 1941 to 1943 as no embarkation is mentioned. He was in the Z (T) Reserve from 1946 to 1954 & liable for recall in times of crisis.

If you didn't get around to applying for his records before this is now the link. Covid & the upturn in genealogy as a hobby has increased the wait to many months. As he was in the Scots Guards I'm not sure if his file will include his service with them or they hold a separate file.
Request records of deceased service personnel

Scots Guards enlistment books up to 1938 are now viewable at findmypast. The regiments website also mentions records for individuals are due to go on FMP. Its unclear to me wether they mean the actual service records or other documents. They were I think the last regiment to hold their own service records & did not give them up even when the other guards regiments did in 2010's.
Archives – Scots Guards
British Army soldiers of the First World War - The National Archives

Travers

 

Hi Greg, It has been a while

John William McCarthy was a Maritime Royal Artillery D.E.M.S. gunner aboard the ss KENT in 1945 - see the attached crew manifest - which he joined in London on 7 February 1945, arriving New York on 1 March 1945. He was one of six D.E.M.S. gunners aboard the ship. The crew manifest states he had 2.5 years’ experience at sea but this is not always accurate so I would suggest he probably went to sea at the beginning of 1943. The information in the RA Attestation cards shown above would suggest he joined the service later in 1943 but this is probably not the case.

What was he doing from 1943 – 1945 then?

His service record, unless it comes with a maritime card, will probably not detail any service at sea and the dates will be accounted for with a reference to this maritime card so if you do not have his records yet be sure to enquire about this card when you do apply for them. The maritime card will show all his postings to ships. In my experience though most records do not come with this card – the reason to-date is not really clear.

Look from post #10 in this thread - Medal Award Query which hopefully will explain the current problems enquirers face when applying for sea-service history. The bottom line is those cards are still held with the MOD and have not been released to TNA yet.

Is there another way to find out about his sea service?

All D.E.M.S. personnel signed the articles of agreement as any merchant seaman would do, so they were classed as part of the crew. You can use Merchant Navy records if you already have the name of a known ship preferably at the end of his service. So, we know he joined ss KENT in February 1945, and if you can obtain the 1945 Crew Agreement, not the same thing as the attached crew manifest, look for his name and check the column marked previous ship and with a bit of luck it will be named. You can then obtain the CA for that ship and go backwards until you get to the beginning of his service at sea. It is not infallible but it does work well – the only downside really is obtaining the documents which will require a visit to Kew or the help of a researcher to copy for you.

The 1945 Crew Agreement you need is held at TNA Kew in piece BT 381/3317 under the ship’s official number, 142611.
Note* this file is for the whole year so you need to copy only the period of interest – around February 1945.

I hope that helps but please feel free to ask if you are unclear about anything.

Regards

Hugh

 

Hi,

The majority of Scots Guards service files for men who enlisted up to about 1936 are online with findmypast. There are some post 1936 enlistment records plus wartime “transfers in”.

OP should be able to find his gf record unless it was sent to RA records when he rejoined but he may not have disclosed his prior service as that usually leads to the continued use of the first service number.

Steve

 

Thank you Steve and Hugh,

Ive found only one record on FMP.

Looks like he joined Scots Guards in 1924 and did 12 years. Left in 1936.
His Number was 6699492
He then re-listed into Royal Artillery 1941
Looks like he didnt mention this as his number in RA was 1756867

So from 1941 hes gone into D.E.M.s but need to find out what was he was actually doing and what the first ship was.
Thanks to Hugh. SS.Kent is a starting point I suppose.
I have ordered the Crew Agreement so hopefully can start to roll back the ships.

Would there be a more in depth record of his time in the Scots Guards?

 

Hi,

As the far right column indicates that Scots Guards record office were aware of his 1941 RA enlistment his Scots Guards papers were likely sent to RA records office and may still be held by MOD/National Archives.

As he was born over 116 years ago you should get his complete file.

Steve

PS

As his Scots Guards regimental number is not from their block of army service numbers he was likely serving in a TA Battalion when he enlisted into the Regular Army.

 

Service numbers starting 6699... are from the sequence allocated in 1920 to the London Regiment, a TA formation. The actual sequence was 6515001 - 6825000.
New British Army numbers issued in 1920 renumbering - The Long, Long Trail